Author Katie Anderson’s Audiobook Mistakes and What She Learned in the Process

Author Katie Anderson’s Audiobook Mistakes and What She Learned in the Process


Check out all episodes on the My Favorite Mistake main page.

My guest for Episode #128 of the My Favorite Mistake podcast is Katie Anderson, a leadership coach, and the author of the book Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn: Lessons from Toyota Leader Isao Yoshino on a Lifetime of Continuous Learning — along with the companion workbook that she published.

Katie was previously a guest with Mr. Yoshino in Episode 30 back in January 2021.

In today's episode, Katie tells her most recent “favorite mistake” story about recording and producing the audiobook version of her book. What went wrong? How did she discover the problems?

We talk about that story and other topics including:

  • Doing your best? Give it your best – Japanese word: ganbarimasu
  • Root cause of the sound variation in the audiobook recording?
  • Lean Blog Interviews podcast episodes with Katie
  • Anxiety about talking about mistakes?
  • Reflections on creating a culture where it’s safe to talk freely about mistakes?
  • How can people learn with you, work with you?
  • Leading to Learn Accelerator

Scroll down to find:

  • Video
  • Quotes
  • How to subscribe
  • Full transcript

Watch the Episode:


"Within days of the audiobook coming out, I realized that there were sections of the audiobook where the sound quality was not to my expectations..."
"... all the lessons from my book were so applicable to the experience that I was going through..."
"It's always a little anxiety provoking to share a big mistake. But I think it's really important to show that we all can make mistakes and it's okay."

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Automated Transcript (Likely Contains Mistakes)

Mark Graban (0s):

Episode 128, Katie Anderson, author of Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn

Katie Anderson (9s):

My most, my most learned from and impactful mistake.

Mark Graban (21s):

I'm Mark Graban. This is My Favorite Mistake. In this podcast, you'll hear business leaders and other really interesting people talking about their favorite mistakes because we all make mistakes, but what matters is learning from our mistakes instead of repeating them over and over again. So this is the place for honest reflection and conversation, personal growth and professional success. Visit our website at For more information about Katie Anderson and her work, check out the show notes, or you can go to Happy new year. Welcome back. Thanks for listening.

Mark Graban (1m 2s):

Well, hi everybody. Welcome to my favorite mistake. I'm Mark Graban, and I want to say welcome back. We have a returning guest today. She is Katie Anderson. She is author of the book titled Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn: Lessons from Toyota Leader Isao Yoshino on a Lifetime of Continuous Learning. So my most recent small mistake, I don't know why I couldn't say the word continuous. Like Katie was a guest with Mr. Yoshino back in Episode 30 in January of 2021. So I encourage you to go listen to that. If you haven't already Katie, as a leadership coach, you can learn more about her and her work at

Mark Graban (1m 43s):

So Katie, welcome back to the podcast. How are you?

Katie Anderson (1m 45s):

Thank you, Mark. I am thrilled to be here today and I've really been looking forward to coming here and using this as purpose, purposeful time for reflection and discussion with you about my recent and newest and biggest favorite mistake.

Mark Graban (2m 1s):

Most recent mistake.

Katie Anderson (2m 4s):

Well, I mean, I guess my biggest recent mistake, my most, my most learned from and impactful both mistakes lessons learned, and it's all now a success story. So it's, it's a good story of learning and growth.

Mark Graban (2m 21s):

Yeah. So a part of me said, oh no, I was sorry to hear that, that Katie had a story to tell, but like you said, Katie, I mean happy. I mean, of course you, you reflected on it. You learned from it as you talked about backing up. So at 30 with, with the mistake that you, you shared with us from, from earlier in your career. But so I, I was going to let everyone know on this, this leads into talking about your story, that Katie's book again, it's learning to lead, leading to learn it's available as an audiobook. And that sort of leads us to, okay. Gosh, what happened?

Katie Anderson (2m 59s):

Yes. Well, I had many goals for myself this year, so the book learning to lead, leading to learn, I published it. I published it in July of 2020, and that was super exciting and paperback and ebook. And I always knew that doing an audiobook was on my list for 2021. And I had the great experience and learning experience of recording it and producing it twice. And that's part of my, my mistake here that I want to share. And, you know, I think one of the set that context to one of the really interesting things for me through this whole experience was that all the lessons from the book were so applicable to the experience that I was going through.

Katie Anderson (3m 47s):

So I was having a sort of meta experience of relearning and rethinking about the lessons from the book as it applied to my life, as it related to actually reading the book and learning about the, you know, the lesson. So it was sort of this interesting experience here, but yeah, it was, I recorded and produced the audiobook in the sort of the late winter, early spring of this past year in the middle of it still, you know, the pandemic were pretty shut down. That was a time where we still were pretty, you know, being pretty conservative, not being out and about. And so I decided to record the, you know, in this, in this lovely home studio, for those of you watching this on YouTube record the audiobook here in my home studio, and I hired a producer to help me with this, we set up, you know, I have my wonderful mic here, but we set it up on a whole special boom and everything did some sound testing.

Katie Anderson (4m 47s):

And, you know, I recording an audiobook is a lot, you know, I, I knew I wanted to record it as the narrator because of the personal story and relationship with me and Mr. Yoshino, it didn't feel right to outsource that to someone else. And, you know, I was doing my best, wanted to put my best foot forward and we recorded it here and was working with a, with a producer to get it all done. My vision was to have it released on the one-year anniversary of the book. And, you know, I was on your other podcast talking about the release and that was super, super exciting. However, I learned a few things through that process.

Katie Anderson (5m 29s):

And within weeks of d. And of course this shouldn't have been a surprise, but it was for a few reasons. And I'll, I'll dive into that in my reflections and my heart just sank. You know, I was like, oh my gosh, like I've spent so much like 20 hours or more recording this. And we did record some, you know, re-record some small bits of it as well, working on it, publicizing it, getting out there was so excited. And then to realize that there were some quality issues that were just, it wasn't like it was terrible quality, but it just things that weren't up to what I would consider the quality grade that I would expect for an audio.

Mark Graban (6m 21s):

So what's an example of that because I, I know from publishing through audible, there are certain quality checks that they do about sound levels and some things, and you pass that, but what, what was, what, what, what bothered you, or maybe some listeners,

Katie Anderson (6m 37s):

Right. So I want to be clear the wasn't like egregious quality issues. They were more of the fine tuning quality issues, where there was some discrepancy between some different sections and really in some of some of the sections or chapters, it sort of sounded like I was more like in a bathroom or something kind of really tinny like that. The Mike really wasn't that good. And then there were, you know, it just, it didn't sound that great, something that you probably for 20, 30 minute podcasts, you wouldn't think twice about, but in an audiobook where you're listening for eight hours and you're also purchasing it on iTunes or on audible, your, your expectation of the grade of the quality is different.

Katie Anderson (7m 21s):

And I had that same expectation as well. You know, actually what it was reminding me of one of the very first things I learned about lean when I was first introduced to the concepts. Gosh, back in 2006, I think when really learning in the hospital system about the different grades of quality and it's what the grade that your customers expect, right? So some people, you know, don't need, you don't need the Ritz Carlton experience. You want just a nice Best Western. This is actually from the slides and material that I was being taught at the time. And I think that same thing is sort of lesson learned for me around that. Well, I went into sort of hyper mode. I had a few people reach out saying, I love the audiobook, but I was some of the parts of the, the recording.

Katie Anderson (8m 6s):

Just weren't up to what I thought. And yeah,

Mark Graban (8m 8s):

Because I was going to ask if it was just your assessment or not, you did have some people reach out and say, Hey, this is great.

Katie Anderson (8m 14s):

Yeah. And so everyone loved the story. So that wasn't the issue. And people are like, I really enjoyed hearing your voice, but there are parts that where the quality wasn't up. And I had like, within like a week period, I had like four different people reach out to me individually. And I really appreciate that. They all reached out to me individually, opposed to like giving me like a negative review on audible. They all said, you know, we, we want, you know, support you and let really like the book. But, and I did take a listen and I was like, oh, so my heart sank. And I was just going on vacation. So I went into hyperdrive and worked with my producer and my business manager to see if there was a way that we could improve the underlying audio quality of a few of those sections, where there are problems.

Katie Anderson (8m 55s):

I came back from vacation and it turned out that there was just some fundamental native audio quality issues. And so I had two choices in front of me either. I could just accept what it was and be out there and which isn't terrible choice, but it wasn't, that didn't feel good for me about the quality of what the material I wanted to be putting out there. Or I could just come to peace that I was going to now it was the middle of summer. So we were much more open in the middle of, you know, 20, 21 looking to find a professional sound recording studio and go in, invest in that, you know, in making a financial investment and an investment in my time, which I knew would be at least over 20 hours.

Katie Anderson (9m 39s):

But to me, there was a no brainer. I was like, and as soon as I was like, when to hyper-drive, I was like looking for different sound studios. I found one actually only 30 minutes from my house, which was amazing. He's done. He does audio like music as well as audiobooks. And I, he had a week available the following week when I got back from vacation. So I just said, book it in. I booked babysitters. I was like cleared my calendar. And I felt so good just knowing that I was going to be able to correct this mistake, even though the current, you know, audiobook was out there, but I was like, you just have to let it be. And I was going to do my best. And so once I went in and did the rerecording and it was so good to have, you know, someone was in a proper sound studio, you know, we just had dogs barking here as we were getting started and have all those Senator options.

Katie Anderson (10m 24s):

And somebody was listening to the quality of the recording as I was doing it. So we knew that there, that, that sort of the root cause of this problem was that there was fundamentally some issues with some of the tracks that I had recorded.

Mark Graban (10m 39s):

Oh, I was going to ask you, and maybe it didn't matter because going through the studio would have prevented a recurrence of the root cause in, in your setting. Did I mean, how much time did you spend on that root cause analysis or you figured, you know, it doesn't really matter because you're not doing it again on your own, in your home.

Katie Anderson (11m 0s):

Well, so I, I did a little bit of root cause analysis for sure. And, you know, the cause ultimately came to the fact that there was some shouting, you know, there was a problem with the sound recording and our discovery was there. Must've been, and I didn't just go actually into what the problem was with the actual software we were using. Cause there were some tracks that sounded great. There were like super professional, high grade quality. So it was, it wasn't that the whole setup here was inherently bad that there was a mistake and it wasn't a mistake proofed. I had to click a button somewhere on the software program to make sure it was connecting to my mic, but there was no positive feedback to say yes, it was or wasn't.

Katie Anderson (11m 44s):

And there, you know, so then this leads into the second sort of challenge is that, you know, around the whole built-in quality and also the concept of pull the, and on which is the, there was a little bit of time lag between me recording it and the producer working on the tracks and in the process of reflection, I think it's really important to not only go and then I've been using this for all of my reflection. And actually they've been talking about this in my leading to learn accelerator programs, how the deeper reflection process upon say, shouldn't just be the outcome and the actions, or even the process.

Katie Anderson (12m 24s):

We really need to dive deeper into assumptions. What were the, even the assumptions we were not even aware of the unconscious assumptions that were unspoken assumptions that we had going into an initiative or to anything really. And how did that actually impact the actions and outcomes. And so I realized that I, as the leader of this project had not communicated a few things or checked my assumptions. So one of my assumptions was that we all sort of had a shared understanding of the sound quality and expectations. I just sort of assumed that that was, that was there.

Katie Anderson (13m 6s):

And two, I made the assumption that if there were any problems that, you know, th the concept of the end on a Toyota stopped the line, like alert the quality issue at the source. And in doing some reflection with my producer, she realized that she was more focused on my target of the deadline date and that, you know, that we should definitely called out some, there was definitely some quality issues where I recorded second certain bits, or there was a dog barking, or, you know, so we did that, but listening to the different tracks next to each other and hearing the contrast that wasn't part of the overall experience. So I was making the assumption that we would know that and record it.

Katie Anderson (13m 47s):

And she was also like, ah, she, it was probably fine, you know, but, but I didn't, you know, it was just, there was just some communication gaps and assumptions made there. And I want to be really clear that I do not blame anyone for this outcome. We all, like I played a huge role in part of my Ponce and reflection on this has been what was my role in this? And then how do we all learn from it and improve like one of the most important things. And I was really thinking about the book the whole time, and this is how do I show we all have an opportunity to, in our choices and how we respond to mistakes and failures or successes as well. And, you know, there may be, and that's really shows our character.

Katie Anderson (14m 30s):

And it was really important for me to, you know, lead with the look at the process, not blame the people and look at the role that I played too, and how my actions also contributed to the outcomes that we saw. So that was some of the assumptions that I was making and, you know, and she was making assumptions that the timeline was more important. And she, you know, I, I didn't want to re-record, well, the, of course I didn't want to rerecord, I definitely wanted to rerecord rap rather than having a lesser quality product go out to my customers. So it was a lesson learned for all of us in that. And then, yeah, it just, it was.

Katie Anderson (15m 12s):

And then also, of course, if I were to do this again from my home studio, I'd really want to figure out how to mistake proof that that quality issue, you know, I, I actually learned really early on to when I first bought this in the beginning of the pandemic, you know, there's a little green light for those of you. So I was like, oh, great. Like doing zoom calls like this. Oh, that means it's connected to it's working. It just means the power is on. It doesn't need, the zoom has connected to my microphone. And so I did, I did a few sessions and I was like, God, the quality like this mic is terrible. Well, I realized, no, it's, it's actually not. Yeah. I didn't even check before we went into here.

Katie Anderson (15m 54s):

So I hope hopefully it's connecting to my mind.

Mark Graban (15m 57s):

I I've, I've seen sometimes people like with a Yeti mic or something, they'll, they'll have it facing the wrong direction, which can make a significant difference. I've I've made a mistake. And, and, and I've, I, I basically, the best I can do is go in double check every time, which leaves me prone to forgetting the check. You know, I've got AirPods in that I'm using as the speakers, I have a microphone it's normally just slightly off camera. There are one or two episodes in the series where I was mistakenly using the AirPods as a microphone, which does not sound nearly as good. And so I'm like, all right, well, you know, I'm not going to go back.

Mark Graban (16m 37s):

I want, I'd rather have the authenticity of what I was saying in the moment. Even if I'm stumbling through a question rather than going back a lot, I can rerecord it with a better mic and I can, I can sound better, you know, more slick, more polished. Yeah. It's a podcast, you know, I think people go for authenticity over Polish.

Katie Anderson (16m 58s):

Right. Well, and so that's the difference, right? That the expectations of the sound quality for a podcast is it different than, and I I'm much more familiar with the printed word having, you know, spent my, you know, just, we were more familiar in print. Audio is a whole nother thing. So I've learned a ton this last year about audio. And one of the lessons that I would kept coming back to from the book actually, and I want to read a short passage here, because this is such an important, the whole concept of learning from failure and mistakes is such an important part of the book. You know, we actually, on the first episode of my favorite mistake, that episode 30, that Mr. Yoshino and I were on where he tells the story about his first major mistake at Toyota.

Katie Anderson (17m 40s):

And that was like the first bookend of a major mistake in the second was him leading a project that costs Toyota $13 million at end of his career. And I was holding Mr. Cho president shows words to Mr. Yoshino in my head around this, because it was like, I'm going to read it here. So he says, you know, his first manager said, don't worry. Mistakes can happen. You are just a beginner and you did your best. And then at the conclusion of his career, Mr. Cho said to him, you were new to the boat business. And so are we at headquarters? We all make mistakes, particularly when we try something totally new, we know you took on a challenge and worked so hard to make it happen.

Katie Anderson (18m 23s):

And I was just reminding myself that too. This was a totally new thing to me doing an audiobook. I'm very familiar with podcasts and, you know, video, but producing an audiobook, recording an audiobook and all of that was new. And so it's about thinking back of intentions and knowing that I was going to correct that mistake, but to not beat myself up to it, I've been reading the back of your lovely mug here. Nobody is perfect. And we all make mistakes. The important thing is continuing to learn from our mistakes. And that was so true. The story actually continued to unfold a little bit more, which is like, it felt like I was in this world whirlwind of like crazy mistake making.

Katie Anderson (19m 4s):

And then unless you're a few other lessons learned, just because I think that for those of you out there, thinking of recording an audiobook, this is helpful to know too.

Mark Graban (19m 11s):

But before going into that, let me, let me ask you one follow-up question though. So when you go back and you, you, you mentioned a couple of times you defined it a little bit andon cord, you know, in a, in a Toyota plant, just to recap above the assembly line, there's literally a cord that's, that's hanging down, that's reachable. If you see a problem, if you make a mistake, if you drop a part, if there's a, a defect that's visible, pull the cord and I've heard it described, you know, the culture is one where they say, if in doubt, pull the cord, because it could be, there's not really a problem, but better to err on the side of a problem, but, you know, Toyota, to be fair to you, Katie, as you, as you described yourself as project manager of the audiobook, Toyota has spent decades building that culture of if in doubt, pull the cord.

Mark Graban (20m 1s):

And I think, you know, one of your lessons is to be very intentional and sort of trying to create that culture within a project, because I think maybe you that's, the problem with assumptions is as, as you put it. Right.

Katie Anderson (20m 13s):

Absolutely. So assuming that everyone on the team came from that same background, of course you'd highlight any problem and then, or a potential problem. And just to make that out. And so we were, we were had problems were highlighted and we corrected them. So I sort of made the assumption that everything was good. So again, how do we, as leaders set clarity of direction and uncover those assumptions, both for ourselves and be clear on team members so that, you know, I was communicating timeline with the assumption of quality and we should have talked about that and then, you know, how do we support each other to make that happen?

Katie Anderson (20m 53s):

And, you know, it's, it's been a great learning for me, truly from like the leader of this experience and like embodying everything about the, about the book. So that was, it was really, it was so interesting. So I was going back in, you know, rereading the book. And you know, when you, when you read your, I think this is one of the other challenges for me is like you, I have read this book so many times having written every word and then reading it again for 20 hours. Like you're like, I do not want to read it again or listen to myself reading it. And so, you know, one of the lessons learned too, and this was an assumption on my part is that an audio producer is also doing all of the quality checks.

Katie Anderson (21m 36s):

They do many different quality checks, but I learned in the same way, you know, you, and I've talked about when you were writing a book, you have different types of editors. You know, you have your developmental editor and then you have your content editor and you have your line editor and then you have your proofreader. Well, I kind of assumed that was all part of what happened. I needed a proofreader and we didn't have a proofreader. And that was actually, and I didn't realize this, my responsibility as the ultimate producer of this, of this audiobook and my business manager had spot checked a few parts of the audiobook and I did too. But, you know, I don't want to listen to 20 hours of me really eight hours, but you know, you don't want to really, no one loves to listen to their self anyway, but so something and a quick mistake that was found out immediately upon publishing the first version of the audiobook.

Katie Anderson (22m 24s):

One of my friends and colleagues pointed out that there was part of the story. Actually, the paint story was missing, but we were able to quickly get that up. But there were some of those errors, you know, that just weren't caught. And then, you know, to err is human and we need to spot check these things. Well, then when I redid it, I hired somebody independently who had never read the book to read and listened to the full audio back to catch any extra potential ums and ahs that were missed in the editing process to make sure that all the content was there. And so that was an additional step that I didn't realize was part of the process. I needed a proofreader, which I would have known about, you know, so these are these small things that if you're looking to do an audiobook, there's a lot more steps than just recording it in your home studio.

Katie Anderson (23m 16s):

And to give myself grace that, you know, in the pandemic, like, I didn't really have many options to go into a recording studio in last winter. And there were, there were more available. So, you know, we all, we're all doing our best in a world of sort of craziness, but then there was, so I rerecorded it. We had a new editor coming in to do it just to, for the seamlessness of this. And then I reached out to audible and said, well, what's the process. If I need to swap out in a, is there a possible for me to switch producer names, just to give a different credit and that audible the person like in India or whoever they were, they shut down the book, they removed it from production.

Katie Anderson (23m 60s):

So then people were getting errors on Audible saying this, this book is out of, you know, doesn't exist anymore. And it's

Mark Graban (24m 8s):

Is that for people who are trying to buy it, or people who are already bought it or getting their

Katie Anderson (24m 12s):

I've had it, but people are trying to buy it. And it meant that if I were as going to put up the new version, that they had to be totally new and it would not correct, you know, simply if you can always update the files and then if people just refresh them, they get the new version. And I call, you know, I reached out the customer, their support. They're like, there's nothing we can do. We deleted all the files it's gone. And I'm like, I don't think so. I mean, I, I have to think that they're more like quality controlled. Anyway, we call Audible and finally got ahold of someone on the phone and they're like, oh no, we can fix this. And so then it took like three or four days. So the book was down for like five or six days. I actually had three people reach out to me. Like I keep on your book. It's saying it's out of production.

Katie Anderson (24m 53s):

Like anyway, all got corrected. I took a deep breath and within three and a half weeks of rerecording, the bloody of book, it was up. I put out a big announcement. People could refresh it. And now close to 500 copies of the audiobook have been sold and, you know, 21 overall five star reviews. And so I'm feeling really happy. I mean, the story was always great. People said they loved hearing my narration. It's like people said, it's like having you in, you know, in my years. And now I feel really proud of the quality that's out there. It matches my expectations and most of all, so I achieved a big goal this year twice, but I also, I learned a lot, but most importantly, I'm really proud of how I showed up in response to learning about a mistake, how I handled myself in dealing with my team members of looking at process, not blaming people, even I felt though I felt frustrated looking with greater reflection on the role that my actions played, the assumptions I made and really what we could all learn going forward.

Katie Anderson (25m 57s):

And, you know, it's always, it always is a little anxiety provoking to share a big, you know, mistake. But I think it's really important to show that we all can make mistakes and it's okay. And just like Mr. Cho said, like, sometimes we're new to something and you know, that we don't do it perfectly the first time and that's okay. And it's about how we respond to that and how we move forward and how we show up as good people. Really. Yeah.

Mark Graban (26m 27s):

And well, so first off, thank you for sharing all of that. And I was going to ask you you've, I've had trips to Japan. You lived full time in Japan for a longer period of time, but I know one of my more recent trips, one thing I may have heard about it before, but maybe it finally kind of sunk in how important this phrase, as, as translated into English of I did my best, or I'm doing my best, like that phrase pops up a lot in many different contexts. And it seems like that is really valued of yes. Getting, you know, legitimately giving it your best effort, the sense of obligation to do that.

Mark Graban (27m 10s):

But then as you were describing sort of like this recognition of, well, you did do your best. I'm not going to fly off the handle and be upset because, you know, what, what would that accomplish or is that fair? I mean, did you run across that phrase or that mindset about you do your

Katie Anderson (27m 28s):

At please the phrase that's gone by , which is the command form of ganbattemasu but it's, it means literally I get, do your best and give it, give it your best. And like, you'd say, I gave my best to at all. And it's, you know, it's used in school, it's used like on the playing field, you know, on the pitch it's used for anything. And it's really about this concept of, we all want to strive towards excellence, but it's most important about doing our best and showing up and giving it a go and then how we learn from it. So it's, I feel like they're gone by Tay and the concept of Ponce or reflection are really important. And it's really those, those two concepts are so linked in the, you know, the plan do study, adjust cycle, the Deming cycle, or what I like to call the study, adjust plan, do cycle, because we need to remember this study to reflect, to, to learn, but also to give it a try, not get stuck in just planning, but also give it our best, even if it's not a hundred, you know, even though the perfection isn't achieved, what are we learning from it and continuously improving.

Katie Anderson (28m 35s):

And that's the real spirit of Kaizen or continuous improvement. It's about having that self-discipline to improve ourselves for the better and giving it our best shot.

Mark Graban (28m 45s):

Yeah. And it seems like the idea of doing your best, then doesn't become an excuse. But it seems like in, in the case of, let's say Mr. Chino's story of putting responsibility where it's really fair for that responsibility to, to, to, to be. So, you know, Mr. Yoshino made this mistake. And my recollection of the story is that his manager of the organization responded and asking, well, how, how was it? We put him in that position and that the organization learned and adjusted. So that the next time somebody was a beginner in that situation, they wouldn't repeat the same mistake Mr. Yoshino made.

Mark Graban (29m 25s):


Katie Anderson (29m 25s):

Right. Yes. So right. They, they, they not only didn't blame him for that paint mistake when he was a 22 year old, new hire and a hundred cards had to be repainted. They thanked him because it showed that they had an opportunity to improve the workplace for someone else in the future. And I think that's a spirit of Mr. Cho's statement too. Like, it wasn't just like you were new to the business. We too, as an organization, we're new to the business and we had some responsibility here for also how it played out. And so it's okay. And they actually asked, and we talk about this in the book, asked him to conduct some self-reflection or Hansei and presented at some management leadership meetings, so that as they were continuing to expand into new ventures, that this same mistake would not be repeated at the organizational level again as well.

Katie Anderson (30m 15s):

And so that's the most important part.

Mark Graban (30m 17s):

And even as you shared in your most recent favorite mistake story, Katie, you know, I think it takes, you know, there's this, you know, there's, there's maturity, you know, that leads to not flying off the handle, not blaming others, not flying off the handle and getting upset and stepping back and having the maturity to, to reflect and move forward in a more positive way, because you know, how often do we hear, you know, different types of workplaces, you know, people getting yelled at and screamed at, and it's just, it, it it's one response to a situation. And on some level for the person getting upset, it might be a release, but I, I would argue it's counterproductive really.

Katie Anderson (31m 3s):

Absolutely. Because, and actually this topic came out, we were in my last session of my leading to learn accelerator. We were talking about the, the boat story and learning from failure and how, you know, once the mistakes out there, or I'm a failure, it exists. Like you can't change that, but you can change your response to it. You can have it be a learning experience or you can try and correct the mistake and, you know, make it better for the future. Which is what I did is like, how can I make this right. And not blame people at the same time. I mean, it, Mr. Yoshino, there's a quote from mysterious, you know, I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember it right now, although I should, cause I've read it so many times last year, but you know, blame blaming makes you feel good in the moment, but it doesn't really help you in the long run.

Katie Anderson (31m 50s):

And so yeah, we just have to pay attention to that for ourselves and, and blaming ourselves doesn't help the situation either. So it's a again, be kind to yourself as an art graven says on it as much.

Mark Graban (32m 4s):

And I'll give credit also to Karyn Ross, you sort of in collaboration with her, those bullet points were, were, were developed And Karen has some of those mugs and you know, so thank you, Karyn, shout out to her. She was my guest in episode #3 of the podcast, but one of the things that comes to mind just referencing back to one of my other guests, Cash Nickerson, who stated it really well. And this has really stuck with me, like there's this balance between like reflecting and thinking what happened when you've made a mistake, but not taking it so far where you're dwelling on it or beating yourself up.

Mark Graban (32m 46s):

Like there's a healthy amount of, okay, I've analyzed it and I'm going to change some things and okay, I'm going to let it go and move on.

Katie Anderson (32m 53s):

Great. That will absolutely. And so I think that that's part of it too, is like, if you just, if you keep dwelling on it, then that's no, that's not, that's counterproductive in a certain point too. So yes. How do you, how do you learn from it and how do you move forward? And I actually should have filled in a Drama as I, but this is like back to my Daruma doll, my massive collective and, and you know, you have your little dream of there too. I should have filled in an eye for my, my, my audiobook a lot to go back and do that. Cause it's gonna be my Daruma for my audiobook. But when you have a goal, you know, you fill on the left eye and when you achieve your goal, there's Mark's little Daruma you feel on the right, but it's like, it's fall down seven times, get up eight, you know, this one extra, is it a lot better?

Katie Anderson (33m 34s):

And how it, maybe it's you fall down two times, you get up three, but it's the most important it's like, how are you getting up? And moving forward, it's not about necessarily always achieving your goal, but it's about how are you moving forward? And sometimes success is what you've learned rather than what you've achieved or who you've shown up as a person. So your intentions rather than the external success of achieving a specific goal. So

Mark Graban (33m 59s):

Well, so the, and this is a Daruma that Katie gave me and on the bottom, it says January 2018, when I was really working heavily on my book Measures of Success. Now I, my mistake, I filled in the incorrect I initially, but the concept was there and this, this thing was staring at me, you know, keep writing, like it was talking to me a little bit. It was encouraging. It was encouraging me, which is, I think the idea. So again, Katie's book and the, the, the, the second attempt better version of the audiobook is available.

Mark Graban (34m 39s):

Now Katie's holding it up for those who are watching,

Katie Anderson (34m 43s):

Oh, I achieved well, this with my, the proof copy, but one of my other accomplishments this year was publishing the companion workbook to the book. So it could have nice. And

Mark Graban (34m 54s):

The Amazon pre…

Katie Anderson (34m 55s):

Yes. Now the available print on Amazon, as well as digital, a lot of things happened this year. A lot of things achieved a lot of mistakes and corrections, but in the most important part is in my, as I've been doing reflections, what I've learned and how it showed up as a person to be intentional and fulfill my purpose and really to be the person I want to be. Even when encountering challenges, setbacks, and mistakes. Yeah,

Mark Graban (35m 26s):

That's very nicely said. So again, Katie's book is Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn: Lessons from Toyota Leader Isao Yoshino on a Lifetime of Continuous Learning. I made it through the title without stumbling over a word. So I encourage people to go check that out. You can find it on Amazon and audible Katie's website is And final question is where here at the beginning of 2022, this is the beginning of the year is a time when people inevitably are reflecting their thinking about the past year, they're thinking about how they want to grow and develop and what they want to do differently in the year ahead.

Mark Graban (36m 8s):

So, so tell us about some of the programs that you offer through your website that people might want to go check out.

Katie Anderson (36m 11s):

Yeah, thanks mark one. You know, I feel like 2021 was just a year of growth and like creativity and making, making things. So one of the other goals and accomplishments was I developed a program that was complimentary to the book and the workbook called the leading to learn accelerator. And I am now offering it as two different tiers. One is just fully, self-paced all of the prerecorded modules, the materials, the workbook, and all of that that people can learn from. And then the other is alive facilitated community cohort, which is, I ran twice this year and we'll be starting the next one in March of 2022. So I'm really excited about that. You can pre enroll now for those programs and you can go to K B J backslash accelerator, and also have a bunch of different online programs that I've led the last year, and we'll be continuing to offer.

Katie Anderson (37m 3s):

And if you go to the courses page on my website, some classes on Hoshin planning. So how do you set your strategy and your goals for the year? And there's a session Mr. Yoshino and I led last year on that too, which is a great start to the new year. So if you haven't started your own personal goal setting, that's a great opportunity for 2022 and more. So I just love connecting with people inspiring and enabling others to live and lead with intention and creating as what we, Mr. Yoshino. And I say a chain of learning. So you know, how we linked together and we're all learners and leaders together in our bonds are strengthened through the learning that we can have together. So thank you, mark, for being such an important part of my chain of learning for gosh, well over a decade now, if we go way back, so

Mark Graban (37m 51s):

Thank you, Katie. And like you said, it's a chain of learning the reflections and the stories and everything in the book, or are interesting and helpful and inspiring to me and it prompts my own reflection. So thank you so great to great to have you back here on the podcast.

Katie Anderson (38m 7s):

Thank you for letting me, allowing me the space to reflect and the share and learn.

Mark Graban (38m 13s):

Well, thanks again to Katie Anderson for again, being a guest here on my favorite mistake for more information about Katie, her books, the audiobook, and more look in the show notes, or go to As always. I want to thank you for listening. I hope this podcast inspires you to reflect on your own mistakes, how you can learn from them or turn them into a positive I've had listeners tell me they started being more open and honest about mistakes in their work. And they're trying to create a workplace culture where it's safe to speak up about problems because that leads to more improvement and better business results. If you have feedback or a story to share, you can email me

Mark Graban (38m 56s):

And again, our website is

Mark Graban is an internationally-recognized consultant, author, and professional speaker who has worked in healthcare, manufacturing, and startups. His latest book is Measures of Success: React Less, Lead Better, Improve More. He is author of the Shingo Award-winning books Lean Hospitals and Healthcare Kaizen, as well as The Executive Guide to Healthcare Kaizen. He also published the anthology Practicing Lean that benefits the Louise H. Batz Patient Safety Foundation, where Mark is a board member. Mark is also a Senior Advisor to the technology company KaiNexus. He is also a Senior Advisor and Director of Strategic Marketing with the healthcare advisory firm, Value Capture.