Leadership, Learning, and Culture: Mistakes and Insights with Isao Yoshino and Katie Anderson

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Joining me for Episode #30 of “the My Favorite Mistake” podcast is Katie Anderson, the author of the book Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn: Lessons from Toyota Leader Isao Yoshino on a Lifetime of Continuous Learning. We are also joined by Mr. Yoshino, the book's subject, who joined us from Japan.

You can download a sample chapter via Katie's website.

I get the very unique opportunity to ask each of them about their “favorite mistake.” Mr. Yoshino tells a story from his early days at Toyota, where he learned the importance of not blaming individuals for systemic problems. He later retired from Toyota after nearly 40 years of work in Japan and the United States.

Katie then tells a story, from early in her career, about being a “bull in a china shop” during meetings and getting feedback that caused her to reflect and change.

We then talk about lessons from Toyota and their book, including the importance of creating a culture where it's safe for people to speak up about mistakes — either in a factory or in a hospital. Why is it important for leaders to create the conditions for people to be successful? Why should leaders take responsibility when mistakes happen? Why is intentional reflection the key to learning?

I think you'll enjoy the conversation, as I did.

You can listen to or watch the episode below. A transcript also follows lower on this page.

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Automated Transcript (May Contain Mistakes)

Mark Graban (0s):

Episode 30, Katie Anderson and Isao Yoshino, author and subject of the book “Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn.” I'm Mark Graban. This is My Favorite Mistake. In this podcast, you'll hear business leaders and other really interesting people talking about their favorite mistakes because we all make mistakes, but what matters is learning from our mistakes instead of repeating them over and over again. So this was the place for honest reflection and conversation, personal growth and professional success. Visit our website at my favorite mistake, podcasts.com for show notes and a chance to win a free “My Favorite Mistake”

Mark Graban (46s):

coffee mug, go to MarkGraban.com/mistake30… and now on with the show. Well, hi, welcome to My Favorite Mistake. I'm Mark Graban, and I'm really, really excited today to be joined by two guests who are both very special people to me. And I'll introduce them and we'll hear a little bit about their connection and collaborations and have a great conversation today. So my guests are Katie Anderson and Isao Yoshino. Katie is the author of a book titled “Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn: Lessons From Toyota Leader Isao Yoshino on a Lifetime of Continuous Learning.”

Mark Graban (1m 27s):

So this book is a collaboration… Katie, as a leadership coach, we now say published author. Her firm is KBJAnderson, and you can find her at kbjanderson.com. And so Katie and I have known each other, well, at least a decade.

Katie Anderson (1m 46s):

Yeah. From this back when I was at Stanford Children's Hospital many years ago.

Mark Graban (1m 50s):

Yeah. So we have a lot of professional connections and Mr. Yoshino, I'm really honored that, that you are here. I did my first study trip to Japan in 2012. And Mr. Yoshino gave a lecture and had a chance to talk with him at dinner. And he spent nearly 40 years at Toyota working in Japan and in the United States. So Mr. Yoshino, it's great to see you again and thank you so much for joining us. How are you?

Isao Yoshino (2m 20s):

I'm fine. Thank you.

Mark Graban (2m 23s):

And you're, you're coming to us from Japan.

Isao Yoshino (2m 28s):

Yup. Yup.

Mark Graban (2m 31s):

Toyota City. Right? Cause I can see…

Isao Yoshino (2m 35s):

Yeah. It's about 20 miles South from Toyota City.

Mark Graban (2m 39s):

Yeah. Great. So my first guest I'm from Japan. So it's an honor. Thank you for being here. So we'll, we'll talk about the book, but I think one of the, well, I know one of the themes from the book is learning from mistakes as we talk about all the time here on the podcast. So Mr. Yoshino, you have a story that you'd like to tell about something you consider to be a favorite mistake.

Isao Yoshino (3m 3s):

Yes. My biggest mistake is already in the book, which Katie wrote. But do you want me to start talking about it?

Mark Graban (3m 11s):

Yeah.

Isao Yoshino (3m 11s):

Okay. Well actually I've made so many mistakes in my entire life… Big and small, but like I said, is a topic I'm going to talk about is almost the biggest one, but it's very, very interesting experience. You know, it was a, when was it this I joined Toyota in 1966, a long time ago. And you know what, you know, in Japan when you hire actually, you know, we, we, you know, from university just start working in April because the school started in April and March. So when we graduated from university in March, then we started working in April.

Isao Yoshino (3m 51s):

So first of four months, particularly in Toyota, the first four months for the newly hired people will go through the orientation. So each not that you just go to the certain, certain section or start working. We don't do that. First four months is the long in our, for four months, we go through the orientation and the first month, maybe it's a classroom orientation about the Toyota history and all those things. And based on that, we are sent to the plant because Toyota is a manufacturing company. So we are sent to the plant where we are manufacturing the cars.

Isao Yoshino (4m 32s):

So we work the same way as the work over there for about two months, total two times. And so my stories is about the, in my experience, working in that a plant, because I was assigned to Matamata plant where we, the people are manufacturing, small sites, car like Corona, Oh no, not Corona virus about the Corona, by the way. Anyway, so that was the manufacturing plant. And I was sent to the paint shop, but I it's not that I was painting the car body, but I was in, I was sent to the preparation office, not office storage, where we have some paint cans and we keep it and we put it in the tank.

Isao Yoshino (5m 26s):

And then, and the paint painting is, is brought into the painting shop. So we have to prepare all those painting. So my job is, was to put the paint in the tank. Also the solvent, we, at the time we have to put in two different materials. One is paint itself and another one is solvent. So we have to put into together. So my job is every two or three hours. When the tank is, is, is empty. Then I, my job is to put the pain a, to the tank mixer, then solvent a, the same material, solvent a to the tank and then puts a push the button and then the machine just mix it up and then send it through the pipe, to the pending shop.

Isao Yoshino (6m 16s):

That's my job. Then maybe two or three hours later, then it's get empty. So I have to do the same thing. And one day when I just, I, I finished my, my work, then I just waiting and, and taking a look at the document or something, then, you know, all of a sudden there's people in the pending stops re-ask to our, you know, stories and ask me, okay. Oh, okay. You guys, something is wrong in the painting shop because Ken does not stick to the bottle panel. Something's wrong. So then The people came in and I was a new, very new, maybe it's the first one week or so. Very, very new. So I was so surprised.

Isao Yoshino (6m 56s):

Okay. Something is wrong. I must have done something wrong. So just people can ask me, Oh, okay. What did you do though? Okay. Yes, sir. I just put this paint a in the tank then I S I put the solvent, ate the thing. Then I take a close look at the label and he was he'll assortment D no, no, I have Not supposed to put the different one, but I did it. I did not notice that. So maybe a couple hours later, it came out. So we found out that I put the wrong solvent in the tanks, which creates huge problem. Wow. What was the 100 of the cars should be repainted?

Isao Yoshino (7m 36s):

So I was so socked, but you know, what, what happened next is that they did not, they not to blame me for the mistakes. Of course it was my mistake that they did not blame me, but instead they asked me, how did it happen? Yes, sir. I just, I just did it. What I was being told. However, I picked pick up the wrong one because there is no site defined somewhere. So I pick up from, from this corner and put it out, but I pick up the wrong one. Then I explain the, then the big boss boss or my, my store store storage is that he said all cares.

Isao Yoshino (8m 20s):

Or you pick up the wrong one, but without noticing, they'll pick up the wrong ones. So it's not necessarily your mistake. It's our mistake, because we did not give you all the detailed instruction, but we just did you do that yourself? So it was my, it was our mistake, but don't worry that we have to figure out how to stop the same thing from happening again. So nobody ever the blame me. So I was so sick that it makes me feel so happy. Okay. These guys did not start blaming me, but they to just find the real cause of the problem. Of course, the pink paint manager also came me.

Isao Yoshino (9m 1s):

So all of the people looking at the same problem, I mean, look at the problem and, you know, thinking of the same way, how to solve the problem. So I was so happy. And after that, of course my, my boss, a group leader is just try to segregate and the area of how, where to store and paint a paint me. So they learned some lessons out of my big mistake. Yeah. And so that was really, really big mistake for me, because at the time what I thought is that, okay, what kind of people are these people?

Isao Yoshino (9m 42s):

Because you, you know, they gonna, they can easily blame me for the big mistake, but they didn't. So what is the thinking behind this? Is it because they want to solve the problem because we are not perfect. So we make mistakes, mistakes happen everywhere, particularly the newcomer like me. So that is what happened to me. And after that experience, you know, I just talk about this, my mistake, who is my colleague oxided we joined the same company, same timing. So I talk with a friend, this is this, you know, this is the mistake I made. What do you think? Okay, don't worry. Or she, no, just, we just, I did it similar thing in my, in my stamping shop or in other parts, part of their training set, you know, location.

Isao Yoshino (10m 31s):

And so several people just say, these are the same mistakes because we are new. And, but they receive the same reaction, just like I received this. So it's amazing experience for me. So I tried to learn what is, what is the concept of behind their attitudes? Because they are, you know, you cannot get anything out of blaming somebody, but you can get something important, you know, important lessons that you can learn are those are mistakes. Some people made through, you know, discussing everything and going to the real cause of the problem. So that is the core things that they believe is so important.

Isao Yoshino (11m 14s):

And so that is really the first, you know, very, very, at first stage, I get that experience. So I learned that, okay, this is one of the very, very important culture that Toyota carries. Right. And so I, I was so proud of being part of Toyota, just just few weeks, but still, you know, it was a great, great experience for me. That's why I wanted to share this with your people.

Mark Graban (11m 43s):

Yeah. I mean, that's such a powerful thing to learn so early in your career, some people do not get that opportunity. They, they get for something, whether they were involved or not. And this is where people learn to blame coworkers or to hide and cover up problems. And that's what prevents learning. And that's what prevents improvement. Right.

Katie Anderson (12m 11s):

I remember when we were first starting to work on the book and we were decided to start at the very beginning of Mr. Yoshino's career and Mr. Yoshino, and I remember you laughing as you recalled this, a memory that you hadn't thought of in years and how foundational it was for your experience of learning to be a learner and a leader at, at Toyota. And it's what a powerful story and what a great, what a great, what a great mistake and the response of leaders as well.

Mark Graban (12m 42s):

Yeah. And you know, my, my impression is, you know, somebody I've never worked at Toyota, but I've gotten to know many people who did work at Toyota and I I've pulled up you one page from the book learning to lead, leading to learn that says, lesson number two, create the conditions for people to be successful. And I've heard that same idea, slightly different words from different former Toyota people. And one of those people, Darrell Wilburn, who worked in the United States and Kentucky and San Antonio, I've heard him say it's a leader's responsibility to create a system in which people can be successful.

Mark Graban (13m 25s):

So to me that that's a sign that a culture is very strong when decades later on a different continent, that same idea is still there within Toyota.

Katie Anderson (13m 38s):

Absolutely. And in fact, we'll dive into this later, probably in the podcast, but how this concept of mistakes and failure and embracing failure as a source of learning was so much of a part of Mr. Yoshino's 40 years at Toyota as well. Yeah.

Mark Graban (13m 55s):

So, and Katie, do you have a story that you want to tell about a favorite memory?

Katie Anderson (14m 1s):

I do. It took me a little while to think about what story I was going to tell, because, you know, as we all know, we all have so many mistakes before we started recording. We were even talking about all the small little mistakes that many of us had made today. But when I was thinking about for myself, what my favorite mistake was, I wanted to frame it on something that I had learned the most four of the most from and what had been the most impactful for me. And that has to go to a mistake that I have made many, many, many, many times, but the story I'm going to tell is the time that this mistake really first revealed itself to me and how it started me on my path of continuous improvement to be a better leader and coach.

Katie Anderson (14m 52s):

So I was in my mid twenties, I had, I was in a place of a career transition. I had, I was living in Australia where I had just received my master's degree. And I'd been awarded a prestigious academic scholarship. I had been for years rewarded for being the expert problem solver and the expert person and sharing my opinion was what I was supposed to do. And I made a decision to leave academia and to take a consulting role at a consulting firm in Australia, where I lived for four years. And I w this, the, my story is so paint the picture. I'm in a room with other colleagues at various levels within the firm.

Katie Anderson (15m 35s):

This is not a client facing meeting, but this is a team meeting of different consultants. And I was jumping in and offering my opinion and offering my ideas. And I, I remember even a visceral feeling I have of wanting to jump in and just be part of it and my energy. And after that meeting, one of the partners came up to me and said something her, the way she delivered the feedback was perhaps not the best because I, well, I always welcome feedback. The word she is didn't necessarily resonate with me at the time. She told me, and I actually debated whether or not I was going to say this on the podcast because they, they really frustrated me at the time.

Katie Anderson (16m 18s):

But I think these words help in retrospect, help galvanize me to realize there was something that I needed to change. And the mistake that I was really making, she said, I was like a bull in a china shop and just barely my way through a meeting to get my opinion out. And it took me a while to really sort of accept that. I mean, I've heard her, but I didn't really take that on for many years, but that was the beginning for me of my realization that I needed to make that shift for myself, that I was no longer in a role that was pure expert, but I also was in a role where I was working with people and I was helping to develop people and collaborate with people.

Katie Anderson (17m 2s):

And so I continued to make the same mistake over and over again, probably not as egregiously, but I, from, from that point, then I moved back to the United States and I took on a role, which is where you and I met Mark at Stanford Children's Hospital and a continuous improvement, internal consulting role. And I realized through my six years at Stanford, children's that I needed to shift from being the expert, always telling my ideas and coming up with the solution and offering my opinion to being more of a coach. And then when I took a more senior leadership role at the Palo Alto medical foundation, leading a team of continuous improvement, coaches and consultants, and working at the executive level, I had a co external coach who worked with me and she was the one who was the real catalyst for me to take some steps back and really reconnect and identify what was my purpose now, what was, what was the intention of my role and what were the behaviors aligned with that?

Katie Anderson (18m 3s):

And it was that year that I really made some transformational change for myself about not jumping in and always giving my opinion. It wasn't about me being right. It wasn't about my ideas. Sometimes it was, but more often than not, it was about me taking a step back and listening, asking questions and helping other people develop. And this has really become my passion now in my career. And what I see is something I can really help people with is making that transition from being an expert or being the one who has the answers to being in a people development role. And how do we successfully navigate that transition and know that sometimes we actually navigate that through each day.

Katie Anderson (18m 48s):

Sometimes we are the problem owner, or need to be the expert, but many times we should be showing up and it's less about what us being right, and more, how can we help support someone else being, right. So I hate that phrase bull in a china shop, but it really does, if you think back to me 15 years ago, or maybe it was more than 15 years now at this point, but that was the real beginning of realizing that I was making mistakes and how I wanted to show up and be in the world. Yeah.

Mark Graban (19m 16s):

And, and who was it that the feedback came from specifically? Was it a peer? Was it a little bit,

Katie Anderson (19m 22s):

It was by the, one of the partners I was working with, so yeah. Yeah. So it was one of, and actually another woman who was one of the few women partners at the firm who, who gave me that feedback, so, okay.

Mark Graban (19m 34s):

Okay. I wasn't necessarily going to ask, I was wondering if gender and expectations played any sort of role in that in terms of behaviors and aggressiveness?

Katie Anderson (19m 44s):

Well, that was actually one of the reasons I initially, and even to this day bristle a little bit, because I did have the experience that there may have been some gender expectations in there too, that it was more okay for men to be speaking up. There were more than at the time. And I'm also also, you know, as American woman in Australia and culture and cultural environment at that time. And so I, I do believe some of that played a role, which is part of the reason I wasn't sure if I wanted to share that story, but at the end of the day, which is a very Australian phrase, I, I, when I look back on it, that was the beginning of me really starting to see that I was making a mistake in how I was showing up if I want it to be effective in a team environment, if I want it to be more effective in working with people and really connecting with my purpose, which was to help other people move forward.

Katie Anderson (20m 41s):

And so, yeah, so there was, there was, there was some things about that, that, yeah, but it was the beginning of my realization of, of the mistake and how it was showing up.

Mark Graban (20m 55s):

Well, I mean, people often say feedback is a gift, but some feedback is more specific or more helpful than other feedback. So in the book, one of the themes is reflection as the key to learning. And if somebody throws a phrase at you, like, well, Katie, you're being a bull in a China shop. Like w how, how do you reflect, w w it would be difficult to reflect on that feedback, or other than like, maybe some blunt reaction of like, okay, I'll sit and be quiet.

Katie Anderson (21m 27s):

Well, exactly. Yeah. You're well, thank you, Mark. You're, you're, you're validating my, my reaction to that feedback. Cause there was, there was important feedback to be had, but the delivery and the method of that feedback was not so effective. So yeah, because yeah, it could have been said in a more reflective way that would have been more helpful for me in that moment.

Mark Graban (21m 51s):

Yeah. And then, like you said, you continued to, as you called it, making that mistake. And then, I mean, w w what was the gradual self-discovery over time perhaps then in terms of finding the right balance of when to speak up when, when to, when to state something, when to ask question when, ask when the listen.

Katie Anderson (22m 17s):

Yeah. So it was really, some of it happened organically through my own personal experience, and then some of it happened with real intention, but I would say it was a realization that it wasn't sustainable. If I really wanted to be helping this organization create sustainable improvement and really have the people who worked in the workplace have more capability and confidence of continuing to improve the processes. We were working on me going in and sort of behind the scenes, doing all the problem solving, wasn't actually achieving that outcome. And I had a role in teaching them and I'll help a role in guiding them in, in along the way, but me just doing it all behind the scenes and being the expert who then like switches away and leaves them with it, wasn't helpful.

Katie Anderson (23m 5s):

And then it really was when I had a coach who was working with me with purpose and intention, who was very good at asking those questions to help self-awareness and I'd gone on a journey from that time, but to ask those questions of, you know, who do you want to be? How do you want to be showing up? What outcomes do you want with your people in your organization, and what role do you have by the way that you're, you're acting. And then how is that influencing those outcomes? Yeah. And so it was, it was being purposeful practice. And I think sometimes this is what I help other people work with now is sometimes it's just the process of some self-awareness. And once you're aware of how you're showing up, it's actually, it can be quite easy to make changes because you start being more refined.

Katie Anderson (23m 48s):

Like, Oh my God, I interrupt. Like I interrupt people all the time. My good friend, Karyn Ross, it was, she was laughing the other day. She was like, I would never have thought that you were an interrupter. I'm like, cause I'm, I still can be an interrupter, but I work really hard at not interrupting people and not interjecting my own opinion all the time, certainly to offer it, but to do it in a more constructive and purposeful way. So, yeah.

Mark Graban (24m 12s):

And Karyn Ross, by the way, was guest number three and this My Favorite Mistake series. So people can find that in, in, in the, the podcast feed, if you want to find that. But yeah, I think it's an interesting contrast in the two stories from, for me, Katie from you, Mr. Yoshino, as you know, that that page that I had pulled up from the book also says in that the header here is Mr. Yoshino was talking about not just create the conditions for people to be successful, but then in parentheses and take responsibility when mistakes happen. So I heard from your story, Mr. Yoshino, that the group leader or others took responsibility for putting you in that position, you know, Katie, it seems like in your situation, that partner, wasn't taking responsibility for maybe not having proactively coached you or the firm, not having better expectations around, you know, what the, the mistakes not as straight forward to solve it.

Katie Anderson (25m 16s):

Right. Right. I think she probably thought that she was helping create those conditions, but apparently her words maybe didn't help as much in the moment, but they did spur me in retrospect and kind of, it was a wake up call for me, that others' experience of how I was showing up was not congruent with my experience of how I wanted to be seen and contribute. So that, I guess in that way it was helpful.

Mark Graban (25m 42s):

So it's, you know, two stories I think for listeners and for myself to kind of reflect on, you know, different leaders, reacting to situations differently. And, and how do we try to create a culture as you write about in the book where you're developing people and improving and succeeding as a, as an organization. So before you wrap up, you know, I do want to talk a little bit more the story behind the book. Again, it's Leading to Learn Leading to now. I always stumble over this when I talked to Katie about the book. So here's my mistake. And I've got, I've got it in front of me and I still struggled to read it.

Mark Graban (26m 23s):

Katie, hold the book out. Yeah. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see the book and you can read it for yourself, learning to lead, leading to learn. Those words are in all capitals. And I still stumble over it…

Katie Anderson (26m 37s):

Instead. It's a lot, it's a lot of, it's a lot of L's learning, leading, learning,

Mark Graban (26m 43s):

Katie. And then I want to ask Mr. Yoshino, your reflections on the book that Katie, what led to this opportunity to write a book, to collaborate with Mr. Yoshino and, and capture so much of what you've learned and what he's taught others?

Katie Anderson (26m 57s):

Well, some of it was serendipity that I had the unique opportunity to move to Japan in 2015 for 18 months with my family. And it wasn't for my job. It was for my husband's, but as a lean practitioner and a consultant, very interested in international experiences and also the Toyota production system. I was very thrilled with this. And I met Mr. Yoshino six months before we moved to Japan and he gave me his card and said, look me up when you get down there and I'll take you to Toyota City and we'll do a tour of Toyota. And I really thought that this and I made my husband take the day off of work. I thought it was going to be a once in a lifetime opportunity. And we just had a really wonderful day together spending time talking.

Katie Anderson (27m 39s):

And from that point forward, I, I jumped on that chink on send the bullet train, take my 90 minute journey down to see Mr Yoshino many times. And we continued our, our discussions and it just evolved. And when I moved back to the U S we continued to talk and it was actually, I believe it was Mr. Yoshino, his ideas. So I, well, I started writing a blog. And when I moved to Japan, which you were super helpful Mark in helping me think about how to get that set up and some initial just sort of spreading the word about it. And I was writing about my conversations with Mr. Yoshino. And he was so generous of saying anything. We talk about you, you're welcome to write about on your blog. And people were really interested in our conversations.

Katie Anderson (28m 21s):

And so when I moved back to Japan or back back from Japan to the United States, we continued to talk and I was writing these blog posts. And Mr. Yoshino said, well, maybe we should work on a booklet together. And I was like, well, I think it might be more than a booklet. I kind of had the inkling at that point that writing something more than a blog post was going to take some serious effort. Right. And so we said, okay, let's do a book. And we started with purposeful interviews and it evolved into a much bigger project than I think either of us imagined he hasn't got. And I I'm so grateful for this experience of getting to work with Mr. Yoshino. I'm really learned so much from him and the depth of reflection.

Katie Anderson (29m 2s):

If we go back to that concept of reflection that he was willing to undertake to, to share his lessons of success, of failure, of challenge, and of learning. And it was really, really tremendous. So it's super exciting. I mean, it's only been about five, five months actually, by the time this podcast comes out, I'll be the six month mark of the book coming out. So that was our journey together. And we're one of the most important relationships in my adult life. This is with this man, so yeah.

Mark Graban (29m 32s):

Yeah. Well, and, and the book is gotten such a positive reception and, you know, the reviews that people can see on Amazon are very, very positive. And the Mr. Yoshino, I wanted to ask you, how does it feel to have so many of your stories from, from your life and, you know, the stories, you know, talk about your goals as a child growing up. Like, you know, there's a lot about, about you in the book. How, how does that, how does that fact,

Isao Yoshino (30m 1s):

It's very, very interesting experience to work together with scary, because this was the first time he meant entire life. That people keep asking me a lot of, a lot of questions to me about my life and my childhood and the third life, but I've never received any kind of, that kind of question from Japanese people. So every time Katie asks some quick, simple question, but it's so profound, so deeper has so deeper meaning. So it's, it's a very much good trigger for me to look back on my past. And most of, most of the things I talk she wrote in her book is, is, you know, is what I remembered, what I recall start re remembering when she asked me.

Isao Yoshino (30m 47s):

So I just try my best to remember all those memories, which is already hidden somewhere. So it's a very big trigger. So that is power of asking effective questions to me. So it's, it was a big trigger. So I learned so much, you know, from my past, from my past experience with one more time, again, I learn when I explained something, then I learned something at the time, but still again, I really learned some important lessons out of sharing my stories with Katie. So it was great experience for me. So I, again, it's the power of asking effective questions and it really means a lot to me.

Isao Yoshino (31m 30s):

And so I really appreciate, and of course it is, it's not about my biography. It's a, it's a history of my, you know, series of learning. So I really appreciate it. You know, Katie gave me a chance to look back and relearn some lessons again. So two times new learning, two times, it's great, great thing to do in my life.

Mark Graban (31m 56s):

That's wonderful. So questions reflections and learning a lot better than blame punishment back to,

Katie Anderson (32m 9s):

Yeah. And I want to add one other thing, Mark. I, what really, I love the title and focus of this podcast, and it really resonates with so many of the stories in both stories in the book, but stories from history as she knows life. And I, I like to say that the book or his experience at Toyota was book-ended by these two different experiences. One, which is the story he shared today on the podcast. And the other was at the end of his career, which is a very significant large business venture failed. But throughout all of that, the response of leaders was the same around mistakes and failure.

Katie Anderson (32m 48s):

And failure is a source of learning and how even the president of Toyota, Mr. Cho had said to Mr. Yoshino, after a pretty challenging many years on working on this project, that this is not, we don't blame you for this business failure. We also had responsibility for this. You were new to the business. We were new to the business and we all have an opportunity for learning. And to me that just sums up the, the quote that I start the book off with, which is, I was always trying to ask Mr. Yoshino, like, what's, Toyota's secret. How are they such a successful company? That's renowned for being it's people-centered culture and culture of learning. And he said, there's the only secret to Toyota is its attitude towards learning.

Katie Anderson (33m 33s):

And that's about learning from mistakes as well as failure and looking at the, at the process and not just the outcome. And I think that's so critical for all of us to remember, and I want to bring up, you have your daruma too, that there's, this there's a proverb that I learned in Japan about fall down. It's called the says fall down seven times, get up eight. And these Japanese daruma dolls represent that as well. It's about setting a goal and an intention. You fill in the data room as IDAs, actually from submitting our manuscript. I have my, my goal here, but if you, the expectation is you're not going to achieve something with success out of the gate. There's going to be mistakes and failure along the way, Mark'ss is better. But this one I do not my hand.

Katie Anderson (34m 14s):

It's not very good, but they're weighted at the bottom because when you fall down, you're getting, you need to get up. And that's how the perseverance and the grit and the tenacity and the learning. Oh, nice one. Mark is how we're going to move towards six that's. And so mistakes are mistakes and struggle. And failure is part of the learning journey towards success. And so if we can reframe mistakes in a different way and failure in different way and have a different response when people make mistakes, that that's how we're all going to be, create a better, better world. Really? Yeah.

Mark Graban (34m 50s):

So we're going to make a, your book, the official book of the podcast here, because that is such a powerful theme. And one of the threads through the book Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn. So yeah,

Katie Anderson (35m 5s):

Practice with intention…

Mark Graban (35m 8s):

Before we record it. So I'll, I'll get better at hosting. So again, we've been joined by Katie Anderson and the Isao Yoshino. Katie, there was an offer that you were going to mention a downloadable sample from the book. Can you tell,

Katie Anderson (35m 24s):

Yes, I have a downloadable sample from the book, if you haven't had the opportunity to read it, that a chapter that describes Mr. Yoshino knows the story that he talked about today, as well as some of the introductory parts of the book for you. And you can go to K B J Anderson forward slash my favorite mistakes. So my dash favorite dash mistake. So we'll make sure calm in there too. Sorry. Okay. All right. So we'll start again.

Katie Anderson (36m 5s):

KBJAnderson.com/my-favorite-mistake. So we'll put that in the notes as well, but you can get that for you there and we'll have some other specials coming forward. So check out that for some other announcements and opportunities for you to take advantage of.

Mark Graban (36m 19s):

Great. So yeah, there'll be a clickable link in the show notes or the YouTube comments or the description. People can click on that. So, well, this has been so nice to hear, you know, your, your reflections and perspectives on learning from mistakes, both personally, and some of the examples that, that we can get from Toyota. So again, the full title of the book, Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn: Lessons from Toyota Leader Isao Yoshino on a Lifetime of Continuous Learning. So Mr. Yoshino, it's been a real honor to have you join us today and Katie as author of the book the same. Thank you. Thank you both for taking time to be here today.

Isao Yoshino (37m 1s):

So thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.

Mark Graban (37m 8s):

Thanks for listening. I hope this podcast inspires you to pause and think about your own favorite mistake and how learning from mistakes shapes you personally and professionally. If you're a leader, what can you do to create a culture where it's safe for colleagues to talk openly about mistakes in the spirit of learning, please subscribe, rate, and review the podcast. Our website is my favorite mistake, podcast.com. See you next time.

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