Donnis Todd and Dan Garrison on Their “Favorite Mistakes” in Making and Selling Texas Bourbon Whiskey
We have two special guests from Garrison Brothers Distillery joining us for Episode #11 of the My Favorite Mistake podcast. They are Dan Garrison, founder, and CEO of the distillery, and Donnis Todd, their master distiller.
I've known Dan and Donnis since I first had the chance to visit their distillery in Hye, TX, back in 2013 as part of an MIT alumni group visit. I've visited many times, and I've volunteered as a bottler, as I've blogged about. I love the people, the place, and the product — their Texas Straight Bourbon Whiskeys, many of which are award winners.
In the episode, Donnis tells a story about a time when he let some whiskey age one year too long… and what he learned from the mistake (and how Dan handled it). Dan talks about a mistake he made with one of their key national retailer relationships and what he learned from that. They both talk about how they've created a culture of “fessin' up” to mistakes when you make them and why that's so important to their company.
You can listen to the episode below. A transcript also follows lower on this page.
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Mark Graban (0s):
Episode 11. Donnis Todd and Dan Garrison, Garrison Brothers Distillery.
Donnis Todd (6s):
There's something about your character growing when you own up to your mistakes.
Dan Garrison (12s):
Everybody makes mistakes.
Donnis Todd (18s):
I'm Mark Graban. This is My Favorite Mistake. In This podcast, you'll hear business leaders and other really interesting people talking about their favorite mistakes, because we all make mistakes, but what matters is learning from our mistakes instead of repeating them over and over again.
Mark Graban (37s):
So this is the place for honest reflection and conversation, personal growth and professional success. Visit our website at myfavoritemistakepodcast.com. Thanks for listening and now on with the show. Hi, I'm Mark Graban. Welcome to My Favorite Mistake. I'm really happy to be joined today by Dan Garrison. He is the founder and CEO of Garrison Brothers Distillery, which is based in Hye, Texas, which is outside of Austin. We're also going to be joined by Donnis Todd. He is the master distiller there at Garrison Brothers. So I'm, I've known Dan and Donnis for awhile. Now I've had a chance, many times to go visit their distillery and I would call both of them friends, but I, I know they had fascinating stories related to mistakes, which is why I've invited them here.
Mark Graban (1m 27s):
I'm wearing a Garrison Brothers, one of my Garrison Brothers t-shirts and I'm really, really excited to have them on. So thanks for watching and cheers, I guess I should say. So we are joined first by Donnis Todd. He's the master distiller for Garrison Brothers. Donnis how are you doing?
Donnis Todd (1m 49s):
Great, Mark. Thanks. How you doing?
Mark Graban (1m 51s):
I'm doing great. It's it's good to see you. And I want to say I'm probably not the first to say, but I want to say congratulations on being named the U S micro whiskey of the year, third straight year by the Jim Murray Whiskey Bible, the, the Balmorrhea release. So congratulations. That's awesome news.
Donnis Todd (2m 11s):
Thank you. It's it's been a great little double barrel bourbon that really checks a lot of boxes for a lot of people, and I just love that folks are just enjoying it and sharing it, but thank you.
Mark Graban (2m 25s):
Yeah, it's great. I have my bottle here. If it wasn't eight in the morning, California time, I would be having a sip while we were talking. I did, I did enjoy some last night, but this is a pretty special precious bottle. So I'm gonna make it last.
Donnis Todd (2m 41s):
No, no judgment here. I, I taste barrels at 4:00 AM. So some people call it work. That makes me feel a little better about it. So no judging here,
Mark Graban (2m 51s):
…but it is open and I am enjoying it. I'm not collecting it or say thank you. It's made, made to enjoy in moderation. Yeah. So, you know, in our theme of, I mean, gosh, we, we often don't enjoy our mistakes and maybe we make mistakes in moderation, but there are certain mistakes that turn out to be good learning opportunities, or if you will, a favorite mistakes. So Donnis, what's your favorite mistake?
Donnis Todd (3m 17s):
My favorite mistake. Alright, so Mark, before I jump into my favorite mistakes story, I'd like to just share something with you that I implemented about a decade ago was that we were going to own up to all of the mistakes we make and believe it or not. We make quite a few here and sometimes it costs us a lot of money and we've had things where folks have stuck the forks through a building and burned up a pump. And the reason that I wanted to, to implement this and I did implement it was I didn't want to get caught, not knowing that a piece of equipment wasn't ready, available to me and be surprised and then not have what I needed.
Donnis Todd (3m 57s):
So on your next visit, as you walk around the distillery, if you happen to see someone's initials to where the hide's knocked off of something, you'll understand, and what we did, we said, we're going to own up to our mistakes. We're going to get the group together and say, Hey, I just burned this up because I didn't open this valve. And we're going to learn from that mistake and we're going to get that pump replaced. So when the next person needs it it's ready, available. And the learnings from implementing this has been huge. My team we're we're much closer or much tighter. We all have matured and grown up so much.
Donnis Todd (4m 37s):
There is just, there's something about your character growing when you own up to your mistakes. And we've just learned so much from it. I didn't expect all of that, but just the personal growth and the growth of my team. So I just wanted to share that with y'all before I jump into my Up To Date favorite mistake at Garrison brothers.
Mark Graban (4m 60s):
Yeah. Well, that's great. And look that that's, that's a really important culture for any organization. You talk about the personal development that comes from that, but when we hide mistakes, we can't learn from them as an organization. You know, in my work in healthcare, that's something that hospitals are really battling is changing their culture so that people don't hide and cover up mistakes. Because when, when, when people are afraid of being blamed or punished for something that maybe isn't their fault, even that just drives some stakes underground and then the hospital doesn't learn and the organization, and even sometimes the patients suffer. So thank you for, for setting that example of, of sharing how important that is to create that.
Mark Graban (5m 44s):
And, and you, as one of the leaders creating that environment where people can do that.
Donnis Todd (5m 49s):
Yeah. The growth has been unbelievable and that was, that was luck. I did it. So I wouldn't get caught without a piece of equipment ready, available. And I did not have the vision to know all the benefits personally, and for my team and for our facility, what would come of it, you know, so many years later that that was luck. So we have it, it's been one of the best things that I've implemented for sure.
Mark Graban (6m 19s):
Great. But that is a good habit. Like you said, owning up to mistakes, going back to, before we get to your favorite mistake, you know, back in episode two, I talked to a Congressman, Will Hurd and he told a story about some mistakes he made the first time he ran for Congress and he lost. And like you said, he owned up to it. He didn't blame anybody else or throw some consultant under the bus. You know, I really admire and appreciate that. You know, he made some decisions and it turned out to be wrong and it was all on him, but he learned from it. And then he ended up winning election three times.
Donnis Todd (6m 52s):
Yeah. There's definitely something for owning up to your mistake. So, so my, my favorite mistake to date at Garrison Brothers, and it would be this chunk of 100 barrels that I filled in 2012. And in 2015, they were a little over three, three and a half years old, 15 gallon barrels. And I absolutely loved them. The bourbon was small batch quality, and I should have used those barrels right then and there. But I did not.
Donnis Todd (7m 31s):
I had a great plan to age these a little longer and thinking that maybe I could make it better, a future release better. So I put them in back into the barns, these hundred barrels and aged them through 2016 and into 2017. Some folks may or may not know, 2017 was the second, second warmest summer in the history of Texas, we had over a hundred days over a hundred degrees and these barrels just got hammered by Texas heat.
Donnis Todd (8m 12s):
So as five-year-olds in 2017, I had already dumped all of the barrels that I needed to make my Cowboy. When I realized that these barrels that I should have used in '15 were almost completely empty. I should have used them in the 2017 Cowboy, but I realized it too late. So now I had to save these barrels and put them into my single barrel program, cask strength. I, towards the end of '17, I started using them. And in 2018, I used them these barrels as five-year-olds very high, only we're yielding some made four bottles, seven bottles.
Donnis Todd (9m 0s):
They should have been making 50 bottle yields. So the average of those hundred was only 1920 bottles. So to make the math easy at 20, and I should have got 50 and those hundred barrels, I literally lost a 3000 bottles of bourbon that I should have just used in '15. So it, it hurt. It hurt financially. It hurt my pride to make such a stupid mistake. So I did have some positives. I learned there was, there was a barrel the way the barrels went together, the front, the heads of the barrels had a little side stave in them with our intense Texas heat and that 2017 summer and the extended aging.
Donnis Todd (9m 55s):
I learned that I shouldn't allow the coopers to build some bar build barrels that way with that little chunk at, towards the bottom, I learned how to make a cast strength, single barrel, you know, up over 140 proof. So if I need that in my tool belt, in the future, I know how to do that is not fill the barrel completely up and leave it extended amount of time in a hot environment. And that will help. And it has helped future releases of my Cowboy, which is a great, great brand for Garrison Brothers because of the halo effect.
Donnis Todd (10m 35s):
We don't sell that many. We don't make that many bottles of Cowboy. Therefore we don't sell that many, but we make a lot of bottles of Small Batch. So people go looking for Cowboy, but I only make a couple thousand bottles of it a year. So then they buy my Small Batch. So there was some positives in there, but that's my today. My favorite mistake.
Mark Graban (10m 57s):
Well, let's, I mean, I appreciate that you shared, you know, there were lessons learned from that and things often end up then better as a result. But, you know, it's just to kind of go back to the mistake. I mean, I don't know if you're being fair to yourself to call it a stupid mistake. I mean, there are times where we don't know what we don't know. Right. You made a prediction of what you thought was the best path for those barrels based on what you knew at the time. Right? Definitely.
Donnis Todd (11m 22s):
Yeah. I mean, we, I believe in my position, I should always try to make a better bourbon every single day. And, you know, that's it, I really was trying to make a better bourbon, but looking back on it, I really should have just, they were, they were delicious, those hundred barrel there. They were good. I should have. Sometimes you just, I just always want to make it better, make it better. And that one costs me.
Mark Graban (11m 51s):
And then how much of it was, you mentioned '17 being hotter and, you know, for, for people who don't know about whiskey making and the aging, you know, there there's this evaporation every year, the quote unquote Angel's Share. So did that hotter summer just lead to more angel share than you would have entered more loss from that?
Donnis Todd (12m 12s):
Exactly. Yeah. That, that, that 2017 summer, you know, tripled our annual average of evaporation angel shares, they call it an industry, but you know, every year I'm losing 10 to 12% of everything. That's aging on the ranch and to evaporation and that crazy hot summer and that unique design on the front of those barrels really expedited that and left me with those barrels that yielded such low, low numbers.
Mark Graban (12m 45s):
Yeah. You know, the other thing that's interesting to me about that story is that there wasn't just a single fix to it, that there were these different lessons learned that all then come together
Donnis Todd (12m 56s):
Or to set you up for success in the future. Yeah. It definitely it, when I look back on it, there was not only multiple things where I could have prevented it, but there was things that made it compound for sure. It just, it, the snowball effect.
Mark Graban (13m 16s):
And maybe I'll, you know, I'll get to ask Dan about this also. I mean, how did, how did Dan react to it? I mean, you're still here.
Donnis Todd (13m 23s):
Yes. He could've reacted too badly, but I am truly blessed. Dan has been very, very patient with the craft. The art, the craftsmanship of making bourbon is in it, I'm sure in any environment, but here in Texas, we've, I've been with, with Dan and Garrison Brothers for 13 years. And Dan has always been willing to give me the time to learn from my mistakes and understand that, you know, people look at us like we're crazy, but you know, I say in 10 years, you know, I think I'll have this new brand figured out.
Donnis Todd (14m 6s):
We talk in decades and Dan has been, I'm truly blessed. He's been very, very patient with me and has allowed me to make some costly mistakes, but to learn from them with, we are always trying to make a better bourbon. And, you know, it's, he, he has been very patient with me and he took it as well as anyone can take. When you tell them that you just cost them a whole lot of money because you just made a mistake.
Mark Graban (14m 38s):
Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's not great, But again, you know, learning from it and maybe even being better off or stronger for it is what makes
Donnis Todd (14m 47s):
It's all the difference. Yeah. And he just told me in time, we'll forget about that loss. And we'll, we'll gain from, from this knowledge, you know, just keep applying, learn knowledge and keep making better bourbon. And we'll eventually forget about, you know, the, the, the revenue loss we'll forget about in time. Yeah. Yeah.
Mark Graban (15m 7s):
And you know, there there's so many good things that have happened again, the, the Balmorrhea released three years running now, you know, award winning the Cowboy Wourbon that you mentioned has been a whiskey of the year at one point I believe, or I know it's definitely been award-winning as well.
Donnis Todd (15m 25s):
Yes, sir. Yeah. The Cowboy Bourbon has actually won micro whiskey of the year, two times. And, you know, it continues to win awards as does Balmorrhea and, and those are all those, you know, learning from mistakes and learning just from repetition in time. And, you know, if you're not getting better at something, maybe it's time to do something different. So, yeah.
Mark Graban (15m 50s):
And then just curious in general, like when it comes to whiskey making and the different steps of the process and, and for the listeners and the viewers might not realize I've had the benefit of visiting Garrison Brothers many times and have seen pretty much the whole process from beginning to end. I mean, there, there are a lot of different things that could go wrong along the way between problems with the grains or problems with the cooking or the distilling, or it gets spilled at some point along the way that, that whiskey, that survives to the barrel and to the bottle and the glass. I mean, yeah. I mean, it's, it's survived what could be in some ways a perilous journey, if you will.
Donnis Todd (16m 33s):
Yes. It makes that, you know, it, and that just adds to that 2012 story is to, to have a hundred barrels and have them perfect then. So, you know, those a hundred barrels could have easily only been 50 or 25 or 75 because of all the, all the, all the things that had to go right. To have a hundred, and then you actually have a hundred, then they age correctly, you know, that's, that's a lot of wins. A lot of stuff went your way. And that is another reason that, you know, and, you know, 2020 is about over and no, one's probably gonna complain that it is that I'm still, you know, I'm still mulling over a mistake from 2012 is because to have a barrel of whiskey is not an easy feat and to go and mess up a hundred of them, you know, it hurts.
Donnis Todd (17m 23s):
Mark Graban (17m 24s):
Yeah. Well, thank you for being willing to admit and share that story. It's so tempting to want to just tell the success stories, but I appreciate you sharing, not just from that mistake, but you know about the culture that you're building there in general. So later tonight at a more appropriate time, I say, yeah, I know you're not judging, but the viewers or listeners might, I will pour some ball marae and say cheers to you at that time. So thanks for joining us.
Donnis Todd (17m 57s):
Thanks for all your support.
Mark Graban (17m 59s):
So, Hey, while we're talking about mistakes, the audio coming up next with Dan Garrison is not as clear as we would have liked, but publishing it anyway. If there's anything you have trouble making out, there's a full transcript available markgraban.com/mistake11. Well, and so we are also joined today by Dan Garrison. He is the founder and CEO of Garrison Brothers, Dan, how are you doing?
Dan Garrison (18m 27s):
I'm so good. It's not fair to the rest of the world, Mark. Thanks for having me on.
Mark Graban (18m 30s):
Sure thing. And thanks, thanks for what you share with the world, including your bourbons. And I'm glad you're going to be able to share stories here with us,
Dan Garrison (18m 39s):
For sure. Thanks for drinking. I really appreciate that
Mark Graban (18m 42s):
Now. Congratulations again, on a American micro whiskey of the year, three years,
Dan Garrison (18m 48s):
It's actually, it's five out of the last seven years and it's, it's been a real honor. Yeah.
Mark Graban (18m 56s):
And so, yeah, that includes a couple of years of the cowboy bourbon receiving that designation.
Dan Garrison (19m 0s):
Cowboy's one it twice and Balmorrhea, that's won three times.
Mark Graban (19m 6s):
Back to your experience in growing Garrison Brothers, what would you consider to be your favorite mistake?
Dan Garrison (19m 16s):
In April of 2016, I had a number of bourbon evangelists working for me. They were covering different regions of Texas, and I asked them to visit all of the Total Wine & More stores in the state of Texas and do an inventory account on what products, Garrison Brothers bourbons they had on the shelves because there was something wrong. And I couldn't figure it out. I knew that we had shipped all of these single barrels out to the Total Wine and More and small batch out to the stores, but we'd go in one store and there'd be no small batch on the shelf. And two dozen bottles of single barrel on the shelf and a couple of Cowboys and a Balmorrhea, we've got another store and there was no Garrison Brothers to be had anywhere.
Dan Garrison (19m 59s):
And I knew that this was some sort of technical error. And I was in a conversation, an email thread conversation with my Republic National Distributing company manager, who manages the Texas Total Wine& More stores. And I used a line in the email that said something like, it's almost as if they're intentionally trying to crush my business. And I copied the president of Total Wine & More on that email. And I woke up the next morning to a very angry email from a wonderful gentleman named Eli Aguilera, he and I have become close friends over the years. And we it's, it's amazing how a tragic end to a partnership or relationship can be rebuilt over time.
Dan Garrison (20m 46s):
And it can make that partnership even stronger today. We are in every Total Wine & More store in the United States, which is somewhere in the neighborhood of 250 stores. Eli has been a huge fan of ours. They do a supplier index rating every year as to what suppliers they like working with and which ones they don't, and we've scored the highest in the rankings in the past two years. I think this year we'll probably going to do more than $2 million worth of sales through Total Wine & More stores nationwide. And the partnership is absolutely rock solid. I've gotten to know all of Eli's people, very, very well personally, and we love working with them.
Dan Garrison (21m 26s):
We love working with them. So sometimes you just learn that you can't burn bridges and you need to repair broken relationships because at some point in your life, you're going to come around full circle and you're going to be doing business with that person again, even if it's at a total or different industry. So that's my favorite mistake.
Mark Graban (21m 47s):
There's, there's a good redemption story from, from that one. And I mean, what, what do you think, you know, going back to the moment, was it a bad assumption that you made about you thought maybe they were trying to hurt you? Or was it just a moment of — I've been guilty of this? I've made this mistake a lot — of having an emotional reaction and firing a response and then thinking, Oh, I should have slept on that.
Dan Garrison (22m 11s):
That was my error. I should have slept on it. And I should have trusted my bourbon evangelist team that was out in the field to get it right. They were going to do the counts that they're going to report it back to the Republic National Distributing Company. And it was just simply a function of some of our bourbon brands, that UPC code on the side of the bottle was entered incorrectly in Total Wine & More systems or in Republic National's. And if I just waited one more week and encouraged them to look at it one more time, it probably would have resolved itself. But instead I had to fire off a heated email, which was just a stupid mistake.
Mark Graban (22m 48s):
So have you, have you gotten better at sleeping on it? Not firing off the, the email?
Dan Garrison (22m 53s):
I'm better, but I'm still not gonna, I'm still, I still get heated and my business is so important to me. I love what we do and I'm so proud of my team and my people. And so if just like anybody else in my company, if somebody comes out to our folks and says something to me, or, or seems to be doing something that negatively affects us or talked bad about us, I, I tend to go off on a rant and I need to control my emotions a little bit more. I did a similar one with a Florida bourbon drinker who said, he didn't like that bottle of Balmorrhea that just showed up on the screen. And he gave off this blistering review of it, even though it had just been named American whiskey a year, two years in a row.
Dan Garrison (23m 38s):
And I sent him a replacement bottle of it. I said, I said, I don't know why you don't like it, but here's a gift to you for free. And he fires off another one that says that it's horrible. It doesn't taste by and it's got an off flavor to it. And I just said, enough is enough. And I cheated him out publicly online and probably lost a customer. And I had to do over again, I'd do it very differently.
Mark Graban (24m 2s):
Well, I mean, if, if to his preference, if he wasn't liking the bourbon, he might've not been a customer already, anyway.
Dan Garrison (24m 11s):
It doesn't have to buy it like it. He doesn't like it. And I hate to lose a customer, but I'm firing off cursory rude reviews online. Really isn't the best solution for anybody.
Mark Graban (24m 26s):
I think that the, the praise and the positive words and the awards far outweigh the occasional negative review. I mean, like, you know, thinking of my own work, putting, you know, having books out there, I've won a couple of book awards. It's not as big a deal as winning whiskey awards in my book. And, and the five star reviews are great, but then sometimes like, Oh, Ooh, somebody didn't like the book and I get a two star review. And that, that, it's, it's hard to put that aside and say, well, sometimes you can't please everybody all the time. I know. How about that, that, that, that kind of review, can sting.
Dan Garrison (25m 6s):
Just like with your literary efforts, I consider our bourbon an artisan product. It's a craft, it's my art, it's my art. And if my art offends someone that that hurts me and, but that's the trouble – If you're going to be an artist. That's what you have to continue. It, you can't release your art to the public. Somebody may not like it. And you have to be ready for that, and you have to have the guts to do it anyway.
Mark Graban (25m 32s):
Yeah. And, and you, you've got, you know, the passion for the business and the product and the people. And sometimes that passion is going to leak out in different ways. Right.
Dan Garrison (25m 44s):
Mark Graban (25m 46s):
So thinking of the relationship with Total Wine, I mean, I've, I've heard in, in, like when I used to work in the auto industry from a customer service standpoint, at one point there were studies that showed if a car buyer had some sort of problem that got resolved well by the dealer that the car buyer was happier than if they had bought a car that had no problems. And I don't think that became an excuse for, well, let's make sure every car has a problem so we can fix it. But I'm, I'm curious if somehow going through that rocky stage, if thatt somehow led your relationship to be stronger than it had been.
Mark Graban (26m 26s):
If, if you hadn't had that dust or whatever you want to call it.
Dan Garrison (26m 30s):
There's no doubt about it. Everybody that works for me was p****d off at me at the time for saying what I said, but they all just worked harder to rebuild that relationship. And eventually it became stronger and stronger than we've ever been and had the desktop not happen.
Mark Graban (26m 47s):
Yeah. And so, you know, Donnis told the story about, well, he told two different stories. One was about, you know, sort of trying to create this culture of people, owning up to mistakes and not hiding things and putting their name on the mistake. I mean, your name was literally on the email in the story you told, but I'm curious, what are, what are your views of, of that culture and what Donnisand the team have been doing to say, Hey, we're going to own up to things and learn from them.
Dan Garrison (27m 14s):
That's been our solution since day one. If you screwed up, that's okay. By admitting that, you're telling the company that this, this happened, I did it this way and it was the wrong way to do it. And you can fix it next time. And I'll be the person that will take the lead to make sure it never happens again.
Mark Graban (27m 33s):
And Donnis gave you credit for, you know, you know, it's all this other story about the barrels that he let age too long from, from his telling of it. And you know, it's not great when mistakes happen, but, you know, Donnis gave you credit for, you know, reacting. I think he said like, you know, as well as could be expected, what was your perspective on what happened there and your reaction to it?
Dan Garrison (27m 59s):
Well, it was expensive in terms of the amount of inventory that we lost, but at the same time nobody's ever aged bourbon whiskey in Texas. So we had to learn from it. At some point we had to see how long we can age bourbon with losing the contents of that barrel completely. And that's what we learned from it. So now we know today that a five year old Texas bourbon can have the flavor, taste, and texture, and aroma of a 25 year old Kentucky bourbon because of the intense Texas heat. So that's a good learning experience. We know that we don't want to go past seven years there's nothing left in the barrel. We go past seven years..
Dan Garrison (28m 39s):
we would Not have known that had we not tested the boundaries of maturation.
Mark Graban (28m 50s):
Yeah. And I liked the way you put that testing the boundaries of maturation and what, you know, you know, Donnis called what happened? You know, he said, I made a stupid mistake. And it's like, well, I don't know. You know, sometimes we don't know what we don't know.
Dan Garrison (29m 5s):
Mark Graban (29m 5s):
And we're learning mistakes are bound to happen if you're not making it. I've, I've heard people say, if you're not making any mistakes, you're not trying hard enough.
Dan Garrison (29m 13s):
That's a good point. I like that.
Mark Graban (29m 15s):
Well, Dan, thank you for, for joining us. I certainly, like, I would say love the whiskey, you know, the, the, the product, but also the people, including yourself and Donnis and your whole team and the place there in Hye Texas that I've been fortunate to, to visit so many times. I look forward to getting back there again this year.
Dan Garrison (29m 36s):
Great pleasure, Mark. We want you to come back home soon.
Mark Graban (29m 40s):
So again, our guest here has been Dan Garrison, founder and CEO of Garrison Brothers. You can find them online. GarrisonBros.com. As Dan mentioned, you can find them at Total Wine & more and distribution in, in, in other stores and in many parts of the country, right?
Dan Garrison (30m 1s):
You can also, there's a, you go to our website, garrisonbros.Com. There's a list of how to, how to find Garrison, but as bottles, you can actually find it, click on that zip code.
Mark Graban (30m 15s):
So I hope I hope people will check that out. And if they are bourbon drinkers, go ahead and give that a try. So, Dan, Hey, thanks. Thanks so much for sharing your stories with us here today.
Dan Garrison (30m 25s):
My pleasure Mark. Take care. Bye bye.
Mark Graban (30m 27s):
Thanks for listening. I hope this podcast inspires you to pause and think about your own favorite mistake and how learning from mistakes shapes you personally and professionally. If you're a leader, what can you do to create a culture where it's safe for colleagues to talk openly about mistakes in the spirit of learning, please subscribe, rate, and review the podcast. Our website is myfavoritemistakepodcast.com. See you next time.