What a Friend’s Murder Taught Sunil Godse About Listening to Our Intuition

What a Friend’s Murder Taught Sunil Godse About Listening to Our Intuition

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My guest for Episode #92 of the My Favorite Mistake podcast is Sunil Godse. He's an engineer who has a company called Intuitionology and he teaches “businesses how to boost their productivity by using intuitive resonance to establish trusted professional relationships.”

Sunil is the author of the books Fail Fast. Succeed Faster and GUT!

In today's episode, Sunil shares his “favorite mistake” story about an unfortunate violent crime committed against a friend and how that helped him better appreciate the role of “gut” and “intuition” in business and in life. 

Before recording the episode, Sunil told me, “My obsession with studying why we ignore our intuition was when I made that mistake that led to a good friend of mine being shot and killed, and I created the Intuitionology project to stop people from wasting time in their lives making bad decisions when they could spend that same time making the right decisions that move their lives forward.”

Other topics and questions:

I've lost my voice due to allergies, so I want to thank my wife for bailing me out by serving as an announcer for this episode.

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Quotes

"Intuition is never wrong and it's always that first signal that you get."
There are four types of intuition:1) Experiential2) Situational3) Creative4) Relational


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Automated Transcript (Likely Contains Mistakes)

Announcer (0s):

Episode 92 Sunil Godse, expert on intuition in business. .

Sunil Godse (7s):

This is one of the four types of intuition we'll get into, like, it's just, there's something odd about him, the way that he was hanging around, where he was looking. I told her like, there's some, there's something freaky about this guy.

Mark Graban (21s):

I'm Mark Graban. This is My Favorite Mistake. In This podcast, you'll hear business leaders and other really interesting people talking about their favorite mistakes because we all make mistakes, but what matters is learning from our mistakes instead of repeating them over and over again. So this was the place for honest reflection and conversation, personal growth and professional success. Visit our website at myfavoritemistakepodcast.com,

Announcer (51s):

Show notes, links, and more visit our website and markgraban.com/mistake92.

Mark Graban (59s):

Our guest today is Sunil Godse. He is coming to us from London and I guess I will say it's the other London, London, Ontario, Canada. So before introducing Sunil let me first say thank you for being here.

Sunil Godse (1m 12s):

I'm doing fantastic. Thank you very much for getting a chance to talk to your listeners and get them to really kind of dive deep into understanding what's this thing called intuition and why it helps you make the right decision in every situation

Mark Graban (1m 24s):

Are you hearing more about that, but to tell you a little bit more about Sunil he is an engineer by background. He has a company called intuition ology. He teaches businesses how to boost their productivity by using intuitive resonance. So we'll have a chance to learn about that today using intuitive resonance to establish trusted professional relationships. He is the author of two books titled gut and fail fast succeed faster. So Scott, with an exclamation point, that's a, that's a bold statement on the cover of the book, right, Sunil?

Sunil Godse (2m 1s):

Yeah, absolutely.

Mark Graban (2m 2s):

So before we talk about, you know, some of those topics that are near and dear to your heart, do you have a favorite mistake that is near and dear to you as well?

Sunil Godse (2m 12s):

Yeah, so it's, it's going to be sort of, so it's a favorite of mine and it was the whole catalyst around really kickstarting. The reason why I wanted to dive really deep into intuition after reflecting on the past, when I ignored it. And so this, this mistake was I had a friend of mine who was looking to get some coaching. I was doing some coaching while in engineering and there was somebody that was stalking her. And so again, there's something was telling me that I needed to meet with her ASAP that evening. And for some reason I said, let's meet a couple of days later. I didn't have anything that afternoon, that evening. It was just completely open, but I made the mistake of saying, let's make two, let's meet two days later.

Sunil Godse (2m 57s):

And the very next day that stalker up to her at a bus shelter and put a bullet through her forehead. And that was the reason why I needed to ask the big why. Why did that mistake happen? And what was this, something that was telling me not to ever make that mistake again? Wow. I mean, so yeah, that's

Mark Graban (3m 24s):

I think what to say there's there's so it sounds like there were two, this is what happens. So I don't know the story in advance, but the, the situation there tragic and awful as was your, your was, was your gut on one level saying, well, I need to meet with her right away. But then on some level there were, there was something that said it's okay to wait. Like where, where do you, it was, was your intuition in contradictory or which, which of those two thoughts meet now versus meet later was based on intuition.

Sunil Godse (4m 1s):

Yeah. So the intuition is never wrong and it's always that first signal that you get. And that was the first signal that I got was to meet with her that afternoon or that evening. And so what happens is, and we can get into this during the podcast interview is that we start to ignore the signals. So for me, the signal was very strong, but for me, I just, I just had a tendency just to let that go. And I didn't at that time, really understand that these signals were so important and that they were they're really primal in nature. And when we get into the science, I'll, I'll, I'll tell you why. And I just let it go. And of course, you know, reflecting back, you know, there were a couple of times where these, some things had had come into play.

Sunil Godse (4m 45s):

I mean, two other examples of this was, you know, becoming an engineer. And so as a South Asian male, you know, there's four doors that you do go for as a careers it's it's doctor, lawyer, engineer, or failure at, right. And so I picked door number three, but yet again, there's that something that was telling me a different signal that was telling me to go into entrepreneurship and I ignored it and then got into engineering. And consequently, it was really interesting that another signal two years later came up saying, yes, become a part investor in this opportunity for, with the restaurant chain. And I said, absolutely. And that was the time I trusted it.

Sunil Godse (5m 27s):

And pretty soon I was making five times more in dividends from the restaurant than I was engineering. And then the, the another time the signal, the signal came into this, something came in, I had this management consulting contract and it was huge back down in Silicon Valley. And from a, from a Canadian perspective, it was big money, great opportunity. And, but the contract terms kept changing. And so it just get, like, I know, like I should be backing off something was saying back off yet. I was saying, you know, emotionally, I was so invested in that contract with the dollars that I went down there and I lost, they didn't pay me. I'd lost every single penny.

Sunil Godse (6m 8s):

And it came back up to Canada, 25 cents in my bank account, I was about to be married two years. My wife luckily was in India. She that's where I met her. And so as I'm driving across the Canadian / US border, she's phoning me to say, how are things going? I need a Sydney. Great. You know, just going to settle in. And the thing is, I didn't know where I was going to settle in. I had no money and I didn't know where I was going to sleep that night

Mark Graban (6m 29s):

Before we kind of delve further into instrument intuition. I I'm curious with the story you told about your friend who was killed to get a little resolution on that for one, I hope I hope the killer was, was brought to justice for that.

Sunil Godse (6m 43s):

Yes, he was arrested. Yeah. He was absolutely rested and yeah, just thrown in jail and then the whole issue of what happened there. And, you know, that sparked the thing with his, he had an illegal gun and he was seen multiple times. So she was actually ended up in a, he was a psych ward nurse. And I remember visiting her at that. And it, it triggered like, you know, as I was visiting her up there, it was just, this is one of the four types of intuitional get into, like, it's just, there's something odd about him, the way that he was hanging around the way he was looking. I just, I told her, like, there's some, there's something freaky about this guy and that she got into a story about she, how she was having troubles with him. And I just said, well, you should tell the staff.

Sunil Godse (7m 26s):

I mean, like he was staffed, but this is really freaky. It was inappropriate. And again, that spidey sense for me, that intuition was telling me there's something, there's something going on with this guy. Even if it's just him looking, it was the way that he looked the energy that is transmitting, you know, however we describe it and I'll get into why sometimes we can't describe intuition. There's a reason why we can't, but I was putting my own language around what I was feeling at the time. And, and sure enough, that was the same guy. Right. And so devastating. What

Mark Graban (7m 59s):

Was the process, if you don't mind me asking of kind of processing what had happened there in terms of, you know, that, that impact of, of not following your gut in that situation.

Sunil Godse (8m 12s):

Yeah. And so, and at that time, obviously there's so the emotional grief and really kind of, there's a lot of questions to why there's a bit of blame that goes on. I could have prevented it. Why didn't, why could, why didn't I prevented it? Why didn't, I wasn't able to prevent it. I should have met with her things. Would've been different. It's all these things are playing in my mind, but what really didn't sink in? What was, what did sink in was I knew I knew what the right decision was, but I didn't take it. So that was sort of the statements I was making around that. Now, consequently, you know, now that after reading my, my, my book fail fast, succeed faster, it got kept me fascinated by intuition.

Sunil Godse (8m 54s):

Now I reflect back this and reflect back to when were there times where I ignored this intuition and boom. That was just, it was just,

Mark Graban (9m 4s):

Yeah. I mean, it seems like, I mean, you've shared examples, both personal and professional of the role intuition can play or that the impact of ignoring intuition. Some of my wife talks to me about is, you know, so you sort of, you know, count council's me to more often follow my gut about things. And, and, and she often listens to this podcast. So she may end up listening to this and probably will be, you know, kind of smile and nod her head. And we'll talk about it and she'll continue to coach me around this, but there are like, I'm trying to think of me, you know, she tells me be aware of your surroundings. So it's just made the lighten, the mood a little bit tall, tell a story about a year and a half ago, I was up in Winnipeg, another fine Canadian city.

Mark Graban (9m 51s):

Oh, really? That's where I was born actually. And I was at a downtown hotel after my day of work and I'm going out to dinner and I came back to the hotel bar to have a drink. And I was just sitting at the bar, kind of minding my own business and not noticing it. And then I, this feeling came over me like, what, wait, what, like what, what changed with the vibe in the room? And I kind of saw very much out of the corner of my eye that somebody had sat down two seats away. Where did he come from? And I just had this weird feeling and then I kind of have turned and he was interacting with the bartender. It was the actor, Sean Penn. He was in town filming a movie. And so I thought, okay, wow, his reputation or that, that vibe proceeded him.

Mark Graban (10m 34s):

He didn't stay there very long. And he had kind of a weird interaction with the bartender. And I know enough about Sean Penn's history to not ask him for an autograph or a picture because he punches people in smashes cameras. So that was a combination of intuition and knowledge that said, let the man be, but there are probably more important, meaningful examples of I'll I'll think about this after the podcast, examples where professional intuition either helped me or caused a problem. Cause I didn't follow

Sunil Godse (11m 6s):

It. Yeah. And you can think of a possible collaboration possible partner. Typically those are the ones or a customer vendor, or so these are things that just, just, you get the sense that something's just not like the I's are not dotting. The T's are not crossed. And so if that can play out, when you ignore intuition that I knew I should have, could have water or you avoid that person and what you shouldn't to his wonder why, what could have played out because when it comes to intuition, you just let it go. Who cares? Because you've already made the decision to move, you know, take a right instead of a left and don't worry about what would have happened if you stayed on the path.

Sunil Godse (11m 48s):

If you had gotten left a gun left.

Mark Graban (11m 50s):

I mean, do you think, and in terms of professional circles or even society that we're taught somehow it's better to think about kind of the, the, the rational, the logical you and I are both engineers and that we should be making decisions based off of data, as opposed to, you know, you're talking about potential partnership. I don't know about them or are we, are we somehow taught or trained to, to ignore that? I think

Sunil Godse (12m 20s):

It's, in some cases, it goes down to older business models, older ways of thinking, you know, whenever, whenever. So for those people who I know have been through either a merger or a buyout and I, and I have them either on my show or they're friends of mine, you know, 100% of the time of the ones that have been successful are the ones they backed away from on paper. If it looked good if they backed away, but something was up with the, the people, the partners, in one case, one of my colleagues actually went through with the merger, even though they knew there was something up with the paper, with the, with the people. And it was just a catastrophic cultural clash that he knew shouldn't have happened.

Sunil Godse (13m 3s):

And yet he did enterprise value went way down. He punted out five, five years later, he got, he just got out. It was such a caustic partnership. And so this is where intuition kind of comes into play over these things as something is just not right. And so we now have the sort of intangible entity or this phenomenon, and we're looking to, in most cases have a tangible thing that we want to hang our hat on. And so when it came to me looking at intuition, it really actually came from what I wrote. My first book, fail fast, succeed faster.

Sunil Godse (13m 42s):

There's 286 people I interviewed and the 75 stories of failure. And the premise for that book is if you learn from the lessons of others then, and you don't repeat them, you should be able to fail faster, succeed faster. Pardon me? So when I went back to the audio recordings, cause one of the things I kept getting asked by entrepreneurs is, okay, so Neil, give me the one thing and says, okay, this is why there's 400 pages in this book. And it costs, you know, 34 95. And you know, I didn't write it for like a one-page PDF thing. Here's the one thing. And then I'm just going to fill it with, you know, graphs and huge text of like 36 font. And, you know, until I went back to the audio recordings and what surprised me is 80 to 90% of the people have gone to their failures or hurdles use some version of, I knew what the right decision was.

Sunil Godse (14m 28s):

I should have trusted my gut. I should have trusted my intuition or something like that. It was just really uncanny. So I looked at intuition at that point as a and again, I give you the stories where I reflected back on mine. So how did I see it? Was there a definition and it couldn't find one that really resonated with me. I went online and people talking about like voices from God and, and manifestation and, and, and, and spiritual nature. And that's okay if people define it that way for them, that didn't resonate with me. I looked at some online definitions, you know, I just they're all over the place. And so I said, okay, what does it, what does the science say?

Sunil Godse (15m 8s):

So I see it as like an art and a science. And so I looked back to my engineering, where you look at something like steel. It has like mass, like properties and energetic properties. And so I said, okay, I see intuition as sort of like an art and science blend. The art is sort of these signals that we talk about, well, what does the science say? And so I went to a colleague of mine who is a neurologist. And I said, I went up to him and I said, does intuition exist? I flip on the camera. And he says is absolutely exists. And he says, you know, he talks about the neurology and it goes down to the gut and more and more research is finding out that it actually acts way before we actually make decisions or take action.

Sunil Godse (15m 49s):

And he uses it for his patients. So I'm thinking, okay, he's talking about research. Let's go take a look at the research. And one of the first pieces of research I saw was that it actually hits the primitive part of your brain intuition acts in your amygdala. And no wonder, I don't have a definition is because the amygdala, there's no language associated with it. We put our language around it. So that made sense. So how everybody else was describing it is okay for them. I describe it my own way. And so when we talk about these signals, they're very unique to you and I, so we can have a common signal. Let's say, let's call it a voice. So let's say you have a voice and I have a voice.

Sunil Godse (16m 31s):

And, but yours may be signal. Number one, for example, or in a professional situation, might, can be a personal situation. And the way that these signals work, that they're positive and negative, the positive ones obviously help you with the right decisions that you make. And for me, it's like the dots connecting or a flow. And one, there was a singer songwriter. She saw an aura. She actually had this, or come up as, as this indication that she should do what she's doing. And as another CEO had this almond, and so there's no shape or color nothing. So he's doing something either. He's getting into a partnership or hiring somebody or talking to a vendor. And all of a sudden this almond comes up and he just stopped, says you're hired, or I'm signing that contract now.

Sunil Godse (17m 11s):

And he was very successful in growing shop.ca in Canada. And now he's doing running a clothing company with customized suits and he's doing wonderful. They're all tied to this old man. Of course, he's not going to tell this board that because they may say we have some other things to talk about. And then there's these negative signals. And that the thing with the negative signals, they actually start very subtle in nature. And as you ignore the subtle ones, then they don't get louder and they change. And so some people think about, you know, the ultimate signal being in a car crash, being homeless, or at the point where they're sticking a knife in their arms before they actually start to their intuition. And then we have some odd ones.

Sunil Godse (17m 52s):

Like for me, it's sort of the hairs in the back of my neck. I'd sometimes go like that negative voice that's warning me. But I had an entrepreneur. I was interviewing on failure. And he was saying that he's a snail adamant all my signals. I'm not sure, but we'll just keep talking. And so, as he's talking about the ventures that he got into that, he hated it. He went in for the wrong reasons. He starts grabbing his left ear lobe. And then he, you know, like about 15 minutes in, he goes snail. I just figured out what my signal is. It's my left ear lobe. And so now he looks back and every time he got into those, those, those opportunities, his left ear lobe got hot.

Sunil Godse (18m 33s):

Every talk, every time he talked to his wife about those opportunities, his left ear lobe got hot. So this is how individual it is. And so in the case where you and I have that voice, that's common. Let's say that's signal number one for you. That's great. That's your first intuitive signal. And you're going to act on it. If it's positive, fantastic. If it's negative, you've got the first signal you realize this negative, you switched to a positive, and then you make your decision. And this happens in a split second for me, if that's a voice and I don't pay attention and do the homework on the other signals and that's signal number three, then that means I've made two bad decisions because I've ignored two signals. That could be the decision between stubbing, my toe or going bankrupt.

Sunil Godse (19m 16s):

I don't know what the veracity of that decision is. And so that's how this sort of the art comes in. And the science also showed that infants, as young as two months old, have shown intuitive capabilities, or they call it intuitive physics in the, in the research paper. So the premise of that you're born with it. To me, makes sense. You have all these neurons that are firing, and it's taking all these experiences, putting into subconscious area of your brain, which research has shown that that's where it comes in and accumulates over time. And so the other research that was showing at that time, that intuition actually hits you seven to 10 seconds. On average, before you actually make a decision or take an action.

Sunil Godse (19m 58s):

So again, confirmed by my neurologist friend, Dr. Rathbone, and I've been told that neuroscience research coming out of Toronto, a colleague of mine is also interested in the same area. She was saying that the Mo the, the research methodology has gotten even better that a research paper coming out is showing that that's as, as early as 23 seconds before we actually take a decision to make an action. So this thing called intuition that hits the primitive part of your brain, which has no language. It's just, and your primitive part of the brain is, is you're going to be emotions of fear safety. It that's, it is right. That's how it works.

Mark Graban (20m 34s):

Th th that was that gut feeling I had in a bar in Winnipeg. Don't look at that guy. Maybe I need to get away from that guy. And that was before know

Sunil Godse (20m 45s):

Somebody who might be considered a little dangerous and how you say it's, it's intuition and knowledge, but knowledge is actually subsumed and intuition. And so, so you're right, that it's intuition and knowledge, but it's actually intuition using knowledge of Sean Penn's past has got you to just look forward and just continue drinking.

Mark Graban (21m 5s):

It made the, that knowledge emphasized the intuition.

Sunil Godse (21m 9s):

Yes. Because that's part of what it does, right?

Mark Graban (21m 12s):

Doubt it. And turn say, well, maybe he's friendly. He just needs to talk to somebody. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. Or, you know, oh,

Sunil Godse (21m 19s):

You know, what are people going to think when I can tell that story that I got his, his autograph, but now we've got Eagle coming in. Like, now you're looking at other people, what are they going? They're going to look at me. I'm going to get the dopamine hit. So you go against intuition, you ask him. And luckily you're taking a chance. You're rolling a dice and he doesn't punch you in the face. Right. Or he does punch you in the face. And you know, you look back and of course, you're not gonna say I should have trusted my intuition. You would have said I knew better.

Mark Graban (21m 45s):

Ah, yeah. Yeah. When we find I'm going to listen for that, as I hear other people's stories about their favorite mistakes and, but a SUNY all, can you tell us about, you've talked about intuition. What do you mean by intuitive resonance? So

Sunil Godse (21m 59s):

Intuitive resonance is when you align the intuition between a company and the people that they associates with. So everything in the company is about relationships. So it's the relationships you have with your customers, with their employees. And on an intuitive level, if I'm an employee, my productivity is going to be the highest when my intuition resonates with yours. And what that means is that the company is going to come up with some mission statements and value statements and the way that management behaves. And then they're going to go intuitively to make sure that their core values make employees feel right in the workplace. What happens is sometimes we put it on a nice, you know, a nice wall and it's like 2d stuff.

Sunil Godse (22m 42s):

It means absolutely nothing. So if it's dead, then what are you communicating to the employees? Right? So if you're really acting on intuition, you're creating a psychologically safe environment. You're asking for creativity, you're respecting their views. And when an employee feels like that, their intuition is going to say, this is a place that I want to work at. And that's when intuition is resonating, it's very much like a skipping rope. And when they're in tune, you have basically a sinusoidal wave. Otherwise you've got a mess. And so when that happens, you know, your productivity increases, your happiness increases. You've got a stronger culture. You have a higher revenues. All the laggard indicators that people typically look for get hit the right way.

Sunil Godse (23m 28s):

But the important thing is these are laggard indicators. The leading indicator is how you treat people and your actions have to match the words. So you can have a beautiful town hall meeting. You can definitely tell me that. Yes, I treat my employees with respect, but your intuition is always intuition as a two-way street. And the moment that they see that the actions don't match the words your intuition is going to say, Hmm, that's pretty interesting. He says that this is supposed to be you, or you feel this is supposed to be a trusting environment. Now, remember, we're going to the amygdala trust. It's gone. It's just that simple. And now you've turned somebody who's to 3d into 2d. Now, this company is a statistic.

Sunil Godse (24m 10s):

Now I'm in Kijiji looking for another job and you've lost the productivity. I can bring the comradery. I can bring the enjoyment. I can bring the happiness. I can bring all these intangibles that are going to actually give you productivity. And statistics show you that you lose $750 billion in productivity, because about happy employees, Gallup shows that 80% are unhappy. 20% of those are actually stealing from you. I mean, this is horrendous. All you have to do is make sure you treat people properly and you run a company properly from the get-go or morph into that. And it's really easy. It's it's relationships.

Sunil Godse (24m 50s):

You have that at home. You have that with your friends. You know, I'm not telling you, it's not kumbaya hug everybody. You know, you have to be a little bit empathetic, but you have to treat people with respect and be open and honest and authentic. And that's, what's gonna make people want to work for you. And that's intuitive resonance because then the intuition, because there's two way street or resonating with each other, and that's where you crush the competition.

Mark Graban (25m 13s):

One of the things I wanted to ask you about Sineal is an approach that you have where individuals can construct open their intuition. Right? Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Sunil Godse (25m 24s):

Absolutely. So this is a seven-day challenge that I have. And what happens is you, so even before you have anything to do with me, or want to dive deeper into what I do, you come on the intuitional.com. You take the seven day challenge. You, you form a problem that you want to solve, that you're wanting to solve for a long time. And the first thing that you do in that seven-day challenge, and what you're doing essentially is you're taking your components of intuition to solve your problem. And you're developing an action plan for your problem to solve it. It has everything to do with you. It's your intuition. I'm just giving you a process, which is really important to go through. And the first thing I do is get you to focus on what didn't work in the past.

Sunil Godse (26m 5s):

That's your negative signals. Then we look at what did work in the past. Those are positive signals, and I'm shortening it a little bit just in the interest of time. And then you have an action plan. And the good thing with figuring out the negative signals first is that if you're developing an action plan and you're thinking about doing a specific step, that is not right now, you're going to have a negative signals coming to you saying no. And now, you know, to take that out, because if you keep it in there, then you're in trouble, right? Because now you haven't maximized the, you know, solving that problem. Then you have to take a look at who, around you, are you going to help solve that problem? And yet be very careful.

Sunil Godse (26m 46s):

Don't be too emotional here. Don't force your best friend in because he's the best friend or she's the best friend actually picks somebody. It could be a mentor for that problem. Who's going to solve it for you and be very strict. What environment do you have to change? If you have to at all, and then take action. And then I measure your strengths from the start. And at the end, I actually have a percentage indicator. And with over 54,000 people now through that seven day challenge, 100% of the time in seven days, their intuition is strengthened and now they have a template.

Mark Graban (27m 19s):

I'm going to do that. And I'm going to tell my wife that I'm going to do it because I think that falls in line with her idea of, I need to strengthen sharpen. My intuition is a different way.

Sunil Godse (27m 30s):

Yeah, absolutely. And it was really interesting that she was saying, you know, look at the situations around you and I'll give you a very good case study. One of my first interviewees was a non-believer as this, a guy who is an investment banker data spreadsheets that ruled his life. And so when I was looking at writing gut and starting intuition knowledge at the time, as I mentioned, everything came from manifestation and omens and all that. And he's just like rolling his eyes. And he says, Sunil, look, I'll give you an hour. I don't know what we're going to talk about. I don't believe in intuition. It will. We'll talk about it for five minutes and let's have a latte for the last 55 minutes. I haven't seen in a while. That's a sure, John, his name's John Rothschild.

Sunil Godse (28m 12s):

So turn on the camera and it's very clear. He says, you know, I wish I could shake the hands of a guy who sees omens act just lucky. You know, it's all about experience and in business intuition, it's just, unfortunately, it's just, it's not there. It's based on information and experience. And I said, oh, but hold on, John. And I'm going to get now into the four types of intuition and the signals on a non-believer. One of the four types of intuitions is called experiential intuition. And as we was talking about earlier, when you're born, you get all these experiences put in the subconscious area of your brain. And so when you're making a decision, your intuition in a split second has already been informed of all the experiences that you've had, both good and bad, both formal and informal of yours and others that you've noticed.

Sunil Godse (29m 0s):

And in that split second it's, it's already informing you of the past experience that you would have had. That's going to help that decision or tell you that you already have the experience to make that decision. So that's how that positive signal works. And in some cases, intuition goes against the data. And then John says, well, that's interesting. I have a, I have a, an example of that. And so he was saying he was in the franchise area. And so he had a benchmarking system and a franchise opportunity like McDonald's and w or something like that, a nine out of 10, they would put a location, looking at traffic patterns, development in that area, et cetera, et cetera. And so now we're getting into the second of the four called situational intuition. And this is where your wife was really important saying, watch your surroundings.

Sunil Godse (29m 41s):

So, and his partner are walking to this dilapidated area of Toronto. His team looked at this location, so a five and a half out of 10. There's no way on paper. They would have put anything there, but his partner and John are looking at and saying, I think there's something telling us that we should put something here. Now, of course, they didn't know what that something was. It was intuition. And now he's saying perhaps it was intuition, but something told me to put something there and they did. And that ended up being the most successful franchise operation from a PLL perspective called the beer market. And so now John's getting it. He's telling me about his stories, his experience with intuition and the, and the third of the force called creative intuition.

Sunil Godse (30m 24s):

And what that does is it helps you make decisions that are so up to set. Other people think you're nuts. And so I asked John, do you have an example like that? And he goes, oh, absolutely. So here's a guy three to $4 million a year on private jets, limousines and high-end restaurants. And he gets his intuition telling him to quit, to run this tiny bankrupt little restaurant. Wow. Now we get into the fourth of the four called relational intuition. All the people who mattered to him, the only people that matter to you should be the ones that care about where your purposes, what matters to you. Everybody else who told him his nuts were concerned about the money he was going to give up the fame.

Sunil Godse (31m 5s):

He was going to give up the lifestyle that looked good, but they didn't give two hoots to what he wanted. He wanted to be a coach. He was done with being an investment banker. He wanted to actually run something and nobody understood it, but his wife. So he goes to his wife. Yeah, your wife will like that. And he goes to his wife and I'm paraphrasing here. I don't know I'm quoting him. And this is the intuitive signal. This just feels right now. He recognizes the way that intuition speaks to him. And he listened to his wife said absolutely. The one person that really understood what he wanted said, yes, he quit rolled up.

Sunil Godse (31m 48s):

His sleeves, walked into that tiny bankrupt restaurant. That restaurant happened to be Eastside Mario's location, number one. And that ended up being over 20 years, over a thousand location, different band names, $2 billion in revenues. By the time he retired all because of intuition. And so now in one hour, I've taken a, non-believer getting him to talk about his stories, his experiences, his intuition. Now he understands how it really beat, behave. So great. Going from the start of, I there's nothing called intuition. That works too. It just feels right. And now talking about intuition in one hour, a zero to a hero,

Mark Graban (32m 30s):

My, my intuition kicks in sometimes walking into a restaurant that you're unfamiliar with. And sometimes you just get a bad feeling. It's almost like your gut is you all right? The health scores on this place or something about it. You're just like, Nope, Nope. Let's, let's just, let's just walk out and that's it.

Sunil Godse (32m 49s):

That's your situational intuition how to play. But now don't forget that all the other four, also the oldest three also working. So your intuition is looking at the situation. They're looking at the people they're looking at your past experience and maybe there's something about it that you, you didn't prefer. And then what's the decision you make, which is creative intuition. Some are going to be higher, not like, so for example, if it was an empty restaurant, then there's no relational intuition is going to be a little bit low, but all these other three, the other three are still working. So it's sort of, it's sort of like a radar, you know, you walk into something and then all of a sudden, all the four types are, do, do, do, do, do, do do. And then you make the decision I'm going, I'm leaving. And it happens just that quickly.

Mark Graban (33m 27s):

Yeah. And you can step back and rationalize and say, okay, my intuition said, okay, wait a minute. No, something's wrong here. And then you stepping so well, the place is empty. That must mean there's something wrong with the restaurant. Right. And you know, those lack of yeah. People.

Sunil Godse (33m 39s):

Yeah. Lack of people. And you know, I mean, if you rationalize it and you really are emotionally driven to eat there, then you might say, oh, well, because it's an off, it's an off angry. And it's sometimes, you know, when people open a restaurant, some of my friends open up restaurants, I just rolled my eyes. Like, you know, because they just don't have the experience. And oftentimes, you know, sometimes my wife will say, yeah, but you know, sometimes when we drive by it's a busy and I said, well, of course it's busy, it's noon. Right. They have to still pay the bills when, you know, one 30 hits or 2:00 PM or 3:00 PM. When there's nobody the heat still on the water's still going, rent's not going to stop because nobody's there, that's where the, the challenges. Right. And then they're not turning over their tables. Right. If they can't turn up their tables because they're hiring people who don't have experience, you know, you know, being waiters and waitresses, then you're not, you know, you, again, we can get that can be another rabbit hole of, of conversation around calculations and stuff, but you're right.

Sunil Godse (34m 34s):

You know, and oftentimes that happens, but we don't really think about it as like, oh, my intuition told me that, which that'd be weird if, I guess if we kind of operated life like that, it's just like, huh. And so for me, of course, I'm talking about all the time. So my kids are around it am my, and my wife is around as much as they rolled their eyes, you know, for me now I can associate that with intuition, knowing that there's my signal, right. Because I'm in tune with the signal now I'm not a robot. And so there's times where I get very emotional and I'll have to, you know, I'll have to think about things a little bit more because it's a more, it's a bigger marketing decision. Or I've got to think about the team members coming on. And I really need to think, even though my intuition is given that thing, that yes, you're right.

Sunil Godse (35m 16s):

I still have to think about it and let the dots connect for me. And that's very, very important.

Mark Graban (35m 23s):

Well, I know this is a important topic to you. So there's a company, intuition, ology. Sunil Godsy has been our guest today. The two books again, are fail fast, succeed, faster and gut. So I'll make sure I link to all of that in the show notes, you have a podcast as well. I do.

Sunil Godse (35m 42s):

Yes. The intuitional podcast series. Correct.

Mark Graban (35m 45s):

Check that out. And then you mentioned that seven day challenge. Is there, what, what's the website? We can put a link in the show notes for people to come and yeah,

Sunil Godse (35m 53s):

Absolutely. So, yeah, so they can grab it off the intuition, lg.com website, and they can provide you a specific link for your guests. Okay.

Mark Graban (35m 60s):

Very good. I appreciate that. I will say that I am going to take advantage of, I'm going to take advantage of that personally. And maybe we only have my wife take a look at it too, because she feels like she has good it and she is a good connection to her intuition, but I'm sure she can still sharpen hers.

Sunil Godse (36m 15s):

Fantastic. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right.

Mark Graban (36m 18s):

Well thanks. And a, his website is sunilgodse.com. So I'll put links to all of that again, in the show notes. So, so now thank you for sharing, you know, and it was probably, you know, it was a very personal story, but thank you for making connections also to the role of intuition in the workplace. So thank you for that and really appreciate it.

Announcer (36m 41s):

Thank you to learn more about Sunil's work books and more visit markgraban.com/mistake92.

Mark Graban (36m 49s):

As always, I want to thank you for listening. I hope this podcast inspires you to reflect on your own mistakes, how you can learn from them or turn them into a positive I've had listeners tell me they started being more open and honest about mistakes in their work. And they're trying to create a workplace culture where it's safe to speak up about problems because that leads to more improvement and better business results. If you have feedback or a story to share, you can email me myfavoritemistakepodcast@gmail.com. And again, our website is myfavoritemistakepodcast.com.


Mark Graban is an internationally-recognized consultant, author, and professional speaker who has worked in healthcare, manufacturing, and startups. His latest book is Measures of Success: React Less, Lead Better, Improve More. He is author of the Shingo Award-winning books Lean Hospitals and Healthcare Kaizen, as well as The Executive Guide to Healthcare Kaizen. He also published the anthology Practicing Lean that benefits the Louise H. Batz Patient Safety Foundation, where Mark is a board member. Mark is also a Senior Advisor to the technology company KaiNexus. He is also a Senior Advisor and Director of Strategic Marketing with the healthcare advisory firm, Value Capture.