My guest for Episode #233 of the My Favorite Mistake podcast is Phebe Trotman, a successful and heart-centered entrepreneur based in Vancouver, Canada, who is passionate about helping others discover their joy. Her book, released in July, is Never Quit on a Bad Day: Inspiring Stories of Resilience – Thriving Entrepreneurs.
In both her athletic and professional careers, Phebe’s personal success has been a testament that anything is possible with hard work, dedication, and a team-centered approach.
As an athlete, she has achieved many accolades as a soccer player, including being inducted into several sports halls of fame, winning championship titles, and being recognized as an exceptional athlete. Phebe has also excelled in her career as a network marketer, earning top awards and recognition within her company
In today's episode, Phebe shares her favorite mistake getting a red card, which meant being ejected from a semifinal soccer championship match and sitting out the final. What were the life lessons and business lessons from this incident, where she retaliated against an opponent for their rough play?
Questions and Topics:
- The retaliation gets punished??
- Business lesson? We have a choice to how we respond??
- Learning to not react — controlling our reactions
- Reacting to negative feedback, even before the book was released?
- Facing challenges? “ we should be more open about our struggles.” — why is that?
- When is it a mistake to quit too soon?
- Was it a tough decision to retire from professional soccer?
- Did you watch Ted Lasso?? What resonated with you?
- Helping others be resilient in the aftermath of mistakes?
- Lessons from the writing and publishing of the book??
Scroll down to find:
- Video version of the episode
- How to subscribe
- Full transcript
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Rising from the Fields to the Halls of Fame: The Journey of a Soccer Pro and Entrepreneur
If you've ever pursued a personal or professional goal, you know that success is not a straight path. It's a test of grit, patience, and resilience, compiled of both high peaks of achievement, and low valleys of frustration and doubt. Just ask Phebe Trotman.
Phebe Trotman is the embodiment of a heart-centered entrepreneur, a title she takes immense pride in. Based out of Vancouver, Canada, her commitment to inspire and assist others in discovering joy through their passion is evident in every aspect of her accomplished life.
Heart-Centered Entrepreneur with a Dash of Competition
Trotman's journey to entrepreneurship involved nailing plenty of high headers as a professional soccer player. Her indomitable spirit and dedication made her a force to reckon with on the field, a challenge opponents were quick to recognize. Her success as an athlete is littered with numerous accolades, championship titles, and multiple inductions into Sports Hall of Fames.
However, her success didn't end on the soccer field. Her competitive spirit and dedication to a team-centered approach steeled her for the entrepreneurial world, propelling her towards impressive awards and recognition in her career as a network marketer.
Sharing Wisdom through The Written Word
On and off the field, Trotman's mantra of never giving up on a bad day gave birth to her recently released book aptly titled “Never Quit on a Bad Day.” The book encapsulates her underlying philosophy of resilience, turning adversity into growth, and responding, rather than reacting, to challenging situations.
Her conviction of approaching life's trials from a stance of problem-solving and persistence is poignantly personified by an incident at an Under 19 National Championship. A rough soccer match at Quebec ended with her unjustly receiving a red card, benching her from the following match. The incident was a poignant lesson in the importance of maintaining composure, one she carried beyond her soccer career into entrepreneurship.
Giving Life to Gratitude amidst Trouble
Trotman's journey emphasizes that life's challenges are opportunities for growth and personal development. It encourages acknowledging the struggles while focusing on the positive aspects. The power of gratitude, she believes, has an impact that extends beyond personal victories.
Transparency about struggles is crucial, especially in an age dominated by social media where the spotlight often gleams on the highlights of life. Trotman argues that sharing struggles both inspires those facing similar situations and reduces the isolation that often comes with dealing with challenges.
Employer Adaptability through Resilience
Resilience, according to Trotman, isn't about never quitting. It's knowing when to take a step back and when to push harder, about responding rationally rather than reacting emotionally. Her personal narrative wonderfully blends the lessons she's learned in sports with the business acumen she has developed as an entrepreneur.
Her journey shows that resilience isn't a destination, but rather a continuous journey of learning and unlearning, forging ahead or stepping back, depending on the circumstances. Everyone makes errors, but those who learn from them, as Trotman did, transform them from mistakes into stepping stones for success.
The Journey of Transitioning from Athlete to Entrepreneurship
Phebe Trotman's professional soccer career saw her rack up accolades, championship titles, and numerous accolades. However, despite her immense success on the field, there came a time when she felt the need to shift gears. Trotman revealed that much of her decision to retire from professional soccer stemmed from a deeply rooted desire to prioritize her family and spearhead her entrepreneurial journey.
Trading in the Soccer Cleats for the Business Suit
It was during the preseason leading into what would have been another exhilarating season when Trotman made the heart-wrenching decision to retire. But it is crucial to note that the inspiring sportswoman didn't resign to end her involvement in soccer. Even today, Trotman continues to find her foothold in the sport, albeit in a different form. She has made a seamless transition from professional soccer to recreational soccer, where she still gets to partake in the thrill of the game alongside former teammates.
Playing at a different level did not rob Trotman of her competitive edge. She participated fully in the league, even securing some national championships post-retirement. Trotman also quashes any ideas of overpowering other teams, highlighting that the level of competition remains strong even in the recreational leagues.
Loving the Game Beyond the Field
In the quest to quench her love for the sport, Trotman also becomes a patron of the sport outside the field. A die-hard fan of the popular series – “Ted Lasso” – Trotman resonates deeply with the blend of humor, fun, and leadership lessons unraveled in the series. Beyond the entertainment, she sees her athletic experiences reflected in the series, making her connection with the show even deeper.
Leading With Love
Heart-centered – this phrase carries substantial weight in Trotman's world. Her philosophy of life and leadership is rooted in the belief that leading and connecting from the heart is key in any engagement. It's about identifying the unique needs of every person and connecting with them based on these needs. Whether it's coaching young soccer enthusiasts or nurturing a budding entrepreneur in the network marketing world, Trotman's approach is deeply rooted in love, caring, compassion, and kindness.
Navigating Mistakes and Resilience
Trotman also delves into the topic of resilience, notably in the context of making mistakes. She encourages a lenient approach when dealing with one's own or someone else's blunders. The majority of the time, people are harder on themselves when they mess up, reinforcing this guilt doesn't bring about growth. Instead, she suggests helping someone learn from the situation and providing a different perspective that would aid in their recovery and growth.
Changing gears from a successful professional soccer player to an entrepreneur sure came with plenty of hiccups. But Trotman navigates these challenges by leaning heavily on her community, immersing herself in personal development, and reminding herself of the bigger picture.
Embracing the Journey of Writing
Just like her switch to entrepreneurship, the journey to publishing her book, “Never Quit on a Bad Day,” was riddled with bumps and challenges. But in true Trotman style, she navigated through the storms using lessons she'd gathered in her journey. Despite setbacks threatening to mar the book launch, Trotman leaned into her resilience, picked up the pieces, and launched a book that continues to touch and inspire its readers.
The lesson from Trotman's journey is clear: it's not about the trials you face, but rather how you pick yourself up, learn, and continue pushing forward, regardless of obstacles standing in your way. As she elegantly puts, “It's about responding to your circumstances and not reacting.” With this mindset, anyone can transform their mistakes into stepping stones to success.
Automated Transcript (May Contain Mistakes)
Mark Graban: Well, hi, everybody. Welcome back to my favorite mistake. I'm Mark Graban. Our guest today is Phebe Trotman. She is a successful entrepreneur.
Mark Graban: She describes herself as a heart centered entrepreneur. She's based in Vancouver, Canada. She's passionate about helping others discover their joy and so both in her athletic and continuing professional careers. Phebe's personal success has been a testament that anything's possible with hard work, dedication, and a team centered approach. So she achieved many accolades as a soccer player.
Mark Graban: She's been inducted into several Sports Hall of Fame. She's won championship titles and beyond that has excelled in her career as a network marketer, earning top awards and recognition with her company. And Phebe is the author of a book available now, recently released. It's called never quit on a bad day. So we're going to get to talk about that and more.
Mark Graban: Phebe, welcome to the podcast. How are you?
Phebe Trotman: Thank you so much. Thanks so much, Mark, for having me on. I'm really excited for this conversation and just appreciate everything that you're doing with the podcast.
Mark Graban: Well, thank you. I'm excited to hear your story. Congrats on the book. And before we come back and talk about that, I'm going to throw the question that I know you're expecting. With all the different things that you've done, what would you say is your favorite mistake?
Phebe Trotman: Absolutely. Well, I love this question, and I just have to say again, I love the whole concept behind this podcast and everything that you're having people share. And so when I was thinking about My Favorite Mistake again, there's lots, as you said, over a career, there's usually a lot to choose from. And I think it goes back to actually an under 19 national championship. So I was playing with a soccer team, and we traveled to Quebec to play in the national championship final or the championship final tournament.
Phebe Trotman: And it was the semifinal game. We're playing against Quebec, and it was a battle. They were a great team. We have a very talented team as well. And we were battling all over the field.
Phebe Trotman: And this one I play up front, and one defender was just on me and everything. She was elbowing me in the gut. When the ball was on the other side of the field, she was stepping on my toes. I remember her taking her cleat and raking it down the front of my shin and just tough player. Lots of stuff that shouldn't happen on the soccer field, but it does, right?
Phebe Trotman: People want to win and they battle hard. And at one time, at one play, my content got knocked out. So I was kind of seen with just one vision, with one eye, with one great eye. And anyhow, it's a tough game, you guys. It really was a tough game.
Phebe Trotman: And so at one point, I was just so frustrated because she kept elbowing the gut. Elbowing the gut. And so I just pushed her back a little bit, kind of push her off me a little bit and give her a little nudge. And she fell down and she was wailing, so she fell down, arms wailing, all this stuff. Now, again, the reason I mentioned the one eye is because it was my right eye that was out, and I was on the right side, and so I probably couldn't see that the linesman was right there.
Phebe Trotman: So when I gave her the little push, she fell down, flag went up, ref comes sprinting over. Automatic red card. I'm ejected from the game, and I am just bawling because it hit right. Well, first of all, it just was the frustration of everything happening. And when you get a red card, most times you're automatically out if it's a tournament for the next game.
Phebe Trotman: And this was the semifinal. We did end up winning that game, thankfully, and we went on to the final, and I had to watch. I was on the sideline with my dad and my uncle watching the game, devastated, because in that one moment, things shifted and we ended up winning the game again. We had a very talented team, so I'm so thankful that we were able to win that game. However, it was hard because I was a player who was contributing to the success of the team and then to miss that game.
Phebe Trotman: So the reason I say it's kind of my favorite mistake, looking back is because I realized how much that game, even though I didn't know it at the time, has really impacted how I maneuver on the soccer field in the rest of my soccer career, as well as a person in general life situations and as well as an entrepreneur. And so looking back on that, I realized how in that moment, I let my reaction to what someone else was doing control what happened to me. And so I've learned from that over the years is that things are going to happen, people are going to do unfair things to you, life is going to throw curveballs at you, and we have a choice on how we respond. And since that, there have been a lot of things that happen on the soccer field, and my response now is very different. On the soccer field, it is usually, okay, you want to do that?
Phebe Trotman: Well, I'm going to go put the ball in the back of the net. I'm going to go play harder. We're going to work harder. So it really did help me learn a lot over the years, for sure.
Mark Graban: Scoring a goal and winning the match is the best revenge.
Phebe Trotman: Absolutely. It's the best way is just to go put your head down and do what you need to do and go to work.
Mark Graban: Yeah. Wow. Well, gosh, I appreciate you sharing that story. And I've never played organized soccer just in the playground, which isn't real soccer. But watching this is not just soccer football, where there's this reputation for, I don't know, flopping, little bit of contact, big reaction.
Mark Graban: This happens in basketball and boy, I guess at some point you have to learn that's part of the game that somebody may draw that reaction from an official. You have to know, I guess, right?
Phebe Trotman: Absolutely. And it's one of those things where again, in hindsight, after some reflection and you're thinking about it, it really is in some ways as a compliment, right? Because they want to take you out of the game. In this case we're using it from a sports perspective. In that case that team, they wanted to take me out of the game and I let them have that.
Phebe Trotman: I let them have that by my reaction to it and they wanted me out of the game because they knew that I was a threat, which again is a compliment. And so now looking as things happen when life throws curveballs or when there's things that happen, unfair reactions from people, I look at it as okay, that's a compliment. They know that something good is going to happen and that's why it's happening. There's a little bit of resistance, if you will. And so again, learning that we're really only responsible for our own reactions and there are going to be tough stuff that happens and how we respond to it is really what's going to determine our success or if we don't have that success as well.
Mark Graban: Too that certainly does seem like a great lesson that comes from the world of sports that we could carry on into career and into business. I don't know if this lesson applies quite the same, but it seems like the retaliation gets punished more than the initial instigation. You see this watching hockey, you see this watching American football or even let's say the CFL version of it's, the player that retaliates that often gets the flag or the penalty or the ejection. But I guess it comes back to that general theme of just learning how to be resilient when someone's kind of coming after you, learning how to not react. That might be easier said than done, but tell us more about that part.
Phebe Trotman: It definitely is easier said than done. However, you're right, the retaliation is typically what gets seen in a sports context, but also in a business context as well. Too and in a life context, there are going to be things that are going to be unfair. There are going to be people who may not want you to create the success that you want to create in whatever capacity that is. There may be colleagues and coworkers who do unfair things to you.
Phebe Trotman: Yet at the end of the day, it typically is the retaliation, it's the pushback, it's getting thrown off course that impacts you. And so we really do need to recognize and realize that we only have control of the reaction and there are going to be those tough situations. And so that's one thing that I do realize, that I learned, unfortunately, in that situation, but has carried me through, because there have been a lot of bumps and challenges and things that I would think, okay, that's not fair, whether it was on the soccer field or off. However, now my response is a lot different and looking at it from a different lens, and that's what I want to challenge everyone to do, is when you have someone kind of come after you in whatever weight capacity that might be, take that as a compliment. It's because that they see something special in you and they see that you're going places, that you might be getting a little bit of that resistance and then recognize that your retaliation, it's not going to make the situation better.
Phebe Trotman: It's really just going to blow it up. In my case, with that mistake on the field, it impacted my coaches, it impacted my team, and again, we ended up with a great result. However, it was very challenging. And so that's one of those things where you have to figure out, okay, well, how can you retaliate in a positive way? If you're going to retaliate, retaliate in a way that's going to help you create success.
Phebe Trotman: And that's why I say it's carried me through in the business world, because when there are those things that happen now, it's the same way I would put my head down and go score a goal or work harder or get the team fired up or whatever my response was on the soccer field. Now, in the business world, in the life world, it's going to be something to move me forward. And that's what I want to encourage people to do, is take that pause, have that deep breath, and then go, okay, well, this is coming because there's something good there. And how can you use this now to propel yourself forward? Because at the end of the day, that person I'm telling this story now, I'm going to date myself right here, but just like 25 years later, however, that player isn't thinking about this anymore.
Phebe Trotman: But I had to carry that through that lesson. And so that's the thing. When we retaliate, we have to deal with the repercussions of it. So wouldn't you want to deal with it in a positive way where it's like, okay, well, this happened and here's how I responded to, here's how I moved myself forward.
Mark Graban: And this type of thing happens, has happened in, let's say, an era of social media. You put yourself out there, you write a book, and again, Phebe's book is called Never Quit on a Bad A. As an author, you cringe. It's inevitable that you'll get a somewhat negative review or even something that's not a five star review is hard. And this is something like this resonates with me.
Mark Graban: And I have a lot of work to do to get better, of not reacting in the moment, like back in the day over ten years ago, I would have someone come after me on Twitter and I would react and we'd get into it. I need to not do that anymore, and I don't really spend any time on whatever that platform is called today, but learning to not react can be difficult. But I remember one time I got a two star review on one of my earlier books, and I thought it was a really unfair review. And back in the day, Amazon had an option where a feature we could comment on reviews, and I probably should have just let it go, but I commented, and long story short, it didn't make anything like ended up this back and forth. And I wasn't converting this person into a mean I don't think my comments were awful, but there was no need.
Mark Graban: The lesson I learned was like, just don't reply. They think what they think, and you got to let it go. That was kind of my hard earned lesson, I guess.
Phebe Trotman: For sure.
Mark Graban: Go ahead. Sorry.
Phebe Trotman: No, sorry. I was going to say, well, you're absolutely right. You're not going to change their opinion. It's their opinion. And again, another way, I remember reading something where it says, in the case of a review, when you hit a one or two, that means you've made it as an author because your book's out there, right?
Phebe Trotman: And so again, it's changing that perspective, it's flipping that lens. Obviously, we're human, so we're going to have those emotions. What do you do with those? Do you have an outlet, someone? Even in the release of this book, I got hit with some stuff that I really wasn't expecting that close to the launch of the book.
Phebe Trotman: And I went to a couple of my really close, positive friends who could remind me back to why this book is coming out, why this is important, who I am as a person. So again, another lesson. We hear it all the time, but who are you surrounding yourself with? And it's not always going to be the same person that you're going to go to when you're facing a business challenge or a challenge in your relationship. So you want to surround yourself with great people, people who have been through it, though.
Phebe Trotman: Because in hindsight, Mark, if you went to someone who had a book out, who had a two star review, you asked, hey, how did you deal with this? They may have said, hey, just don't leave it. That's someone we don't even know what they're going through. Everyone has their own story kind of thing. So I also encourage people, who are you surrounding yourself with and who do you go for that advice.
Phebe Trotman: If there's a flame burning, are you going to the friend who's going to toss more fire on that flame? Or are you going to go to the person who's going to help put it out? A little bit. And thankfully, in that situation with releasing the book, when all this stuff started coming out of the blue, I had those people who were able to put the flame down in that case and say, okay, well, hey, let's look at the title of your book, right? And they kind of flipped it on me, and I went, Good point.
Phebe Trotman: Okay, keep going.
Mark Graban: Never quit on a bad day inspiring stories of resilience. Is that title? 22 ratings at this moment, all five star ratings. So congratulations for that. But I mean, there's a helpful exercise.
Mark Graban: I think every book, no matter how popular or how successful, has some one or two star reviews. That's just how it goes. I hope that doesn't happen to you. Be resilient. Right.
Phebe Trotman: Be resilient in it. And it's one of those things where I am secretly like, oh, keep going up, keep going up with all the positive ones. Absolutely. But I also realize, again, we're not going to please everybody, and it's what we focus on. And so I'm prepping myself for it and reminding myself of all the positive, the five star, the messages that I'm getting from people who have been moved by it, and it's helped them.
Phebe Trotman: And so it is one of those things, is that as humans, we have to choose what we focus on. We naturally are going to have a moment when we get hit with some tough stuff, and then we have to look at refocus. And that's the time where it's the gratitude of all the people that it has reached, all the people who have left reviews, the messages, the positive feedback that have come from other people, and really focusing on that. And remember, there's always a ripple effect with everything we do. And so you may get a response from one person, and then this applies to everyone listening in.
Phebe Trotman: You may have one person who says, like, you know what? Those words of affirmation that you shared with me really touched me deeply. So you hear the one person, but there's a ripple effect because when we positively impact someone, their emotions shift throughout that day and they touch more people. So remembering it's not just the one positive feedback that you receive, or the one person saying, hey, you really matter the one person for this. You won't know the stories of what you do and how much that impacts other people as well, too.
Mark Graban: So, speaking of stories, I want to hear the story of the book and how it came to be and the people stories that you're incorporating in the book. What was the spark for the book? I always love to hear the origin story of why this book, why now? How did it come to be?
Phebe Trotman: Yeah, it was interesting. I was visiting a couple of friends and we were chatting about, as entrepreneurs do often, like, what's next? And I had said, it has been on my heart for years to create something, something to help people, something to inspire people. I've been inspired by many people along the way and I really wasn't sure what that was going to look like. And they suggested write a book.
Phebe Trotman: And I was like because I've had a couple of people over the years who have suggested it and I kind of brushed it off and they were like and they kind of reminded me. I worked really hard with my team to hit the top rank in my network marketing company. Mostly because I wanted other people to see that someone could do it right. It had been a little while since someone had hit it. And I was just like, I want someone to see someone else can, someone from another country, someone of another race, like all these different things, someone could hit it.
Phebe Trotman: And so they kind of flipped that on me and said, well, the same reason you went so hard to hit this rank is why you should write a book for all the people it will help. And so I was like, okay, a good point. And I simmered on it and I knew if I wrote a book I had to do two things. It had to help inspire people and I also had to be inspired by the theme of it. And then I was simmering on it that night and the month before I'd been inducted into the Cocoulton Sports Hall of Fame.
Phebe Trotman: And in that we had an interview process. And the interviewer asked me what has sport given me and sports given me so many life skills over the years? And I shared with the interviewer that although with sport I've had a lot of successes in terms of national championships on all levels and player of the game and player of the league and all these different highlights. The reason I've had those highlights though is because of the tough stuff. Not making a team, sitting on the bench, getting up early mornings to train late nights, recovering from an injury, different challenges going through, those is the ways you get the highs as well too.
Phebe Trotman: And so when I was thinking about the book and the theme, I thought, you know, what? If we start sharing more of the tough stuff for people to see, then in hopes it'll inspire and how we moved through that tough stuff and why we did, in hopes that it'll inspire other people to realize they're not alone in their struggles, they're not alone in their challenges. And here are some tips and resources and ideas of ways to help you move through it when you do get hit with that. And so I kind of do this thing with God. I call it like my open the door, close the door.
Phebe Trotman: And so I had heard never quit on a bad day years ago. And it always stuck with me. And I thought, okay God, if never quit on a bad day. If the domain name is available, then I know you're opening the door. I'm like, okay, so then secretly hoping that it wasn't anyhow, and I get home and I put it in and it's available.
Phebe Trotman: And I was like, okay, I guess you're opening the door. And then the vision kind of grew where at first I was going to combine stories because I always wanted to combine kind of my athletic background and the lessons I've learned there with business. Originally, it was going to be all in one book and then the vision kind of grew. And so now it's going to be a series of books with all different stories and just sharing people's lessons and lessons of resiliency and how they bounce back. And that's why right away when I saw the name of your podcast, I was like, oh my gosh, that's so in line with what never quit on a Bad Day is all about.
Mark Graban: Yeah, well, I agree. This is a great fit. From what you write about encouraging people to be more open about our struggles, that could include a mistake. It could be a quote unquote failure. There's different words that we could use.
Mark Graban: But why do you encourage people to be more open? Or at least that's sort of the ideal, that we can be more open about struggles.
Phebe Trotman: I think it's because now, especially in this social media world, where we're posting all of our highlights, we're sharing all the great things that go through often. Sometimes people will post some of the if they're going through something or they lose a loved one and things like that. Yet a lot of what we see is really just the highlights of people's lives on social media. And that's great and that's kind of what it is there to connect and celebrate and all those good things. Yet sometimes for people, they'll see this great post and someone's celebrating stuff, not really knowing what's going on behind the post, right behind the smile.
Phebe Trotman: Like I say, I'm out and I'm smiling a lot and I choose to be happy. And yet there's tough stuff that I'm dealing with right now. I think when we let people into a little bit of that, they know they're not alone in it. They know that even though they're going through something tough, they can still choose happiness for other things. They can still be grateful and look for other things to be grateful for even.
Phebe Trotman: And again, it doesn't minimize the trials that someone's going through, being grateful for other stuff. It's not minimizing it at all. I don't want anyone to think that it's just shifting that perspective a little bit to hold on to some of the good things, especially when you're going through the tough stuff, like that little bit of a bright light when you can find stuff to be grateful for. It can be as small as just even waking up in the morning. It can be as small as a good friend, especially again when you're going through such a tough situation.
Phebe Trotman: Finding those little things to hold on to just gives you a little bit of a bright light to know as you're moving forward and that you will get through it if you just keep focusing on those little good things and doing the best to find those happy moments amidst all the challenges and struggles too.
Mark Graban: If you look back over this whole podcast series, there are some guests who have talked about their favorite mistake being that they quit on something too soon and they regretted it. There are also people who say, well, the mistake was sticking with something too long. So there's this challenge of finding a balance. But it sounds like part of the theme from this idea of never quit on a bad day is to not overreact. Like, if we're making progress, if we're on a good trajectory, then you have one bad day.
Mark Graban: Don't let that get you down. Don't let that derail you.
Phebe Trotman: Absolutely. Because there are times when you should quit. And I actually wrote a chapter in that because I could hear people being like, what do you mean never quit ever? And no, I'm not saying that at all. There is a chapter at the end of the book that talks about there are times to quit.
Phebe Trotman: It could be a lifestyle choice. If it's not serving you anymore, then it might be. If it's a relationship that's very not challenging, people understand. If it's something that isn't moving you towards your goals and where you want to go for your life, then it might be time to quit or transition into something else, move forward to something else. But the biggest thing is a lot of times when we quit, in terms of the saying never quit on a bad day, it's usually an emotional it's again, that reactionary where it's like, oh, someone did this to me.
Phebe Trotman: That's it, I'm done. I quit. Am I out? Versus going, well, hold on a second. Pause.
Phebe Trotman: Reflect on it, then make a decision. When you're having a good day, we joke. It's like, if you're going to quit, quit on a good day. Because then you know, you're quitting from a place of you're moving towards something else. You're not quitting just for emotional reaction.
Phebe Trotman: You're quitting because it actually is the right thing. And I share actually, when I retired from playing professional soccer, how I quit, it wasn't because of a bad game or I wasn't getting playing time. It really was just I realized that I had other goals that I really wanted to pursue, and I had hit a lot of goals that I wanted to do in my career in that way, and so in other things too, that I share in the book of why I decided it was the right time. And I felt a sense of peace and a lot of times, too when you do quit something on a good day, if you want to refer to it as that, usually you feel it from a sense of peace. You feel calmness.
Phebe Trotman: It isn't that, again, that emotional response to it where you're just saying, I'm fed up, I'm done. So that's just another thing. I want to encourage people. It's not a matter of never quit. It's when do you quit?
Phebe Trotman: Is more of a way to look at it. And it's a personal decision, I should say that, too right. It's something that that person has to decide for them when they're ready. It's not something you can tell someone, oh, now's the time, but they have to really be ready for it in that time.
Mark Graban: Yeah. So I'm curious then, in that thought process of keep playing or retire, was that on your mind for a while and you thought, well, no, it all tips towards keep playing, or was it just happily rolling along until you hit a point where you're like, no, it's time to hang up the cleats?
Phebe Trotman: Yeah, great question. I don't know if I thought about it. I don't believe it was on my mind for a while. And looking back on it, it wasn't on my mind for a while. However, I had started to look into entrepreneurial things.
Phebe Trotman: I had started my business as well the year before, and I just realized, too I had missed a lot of family events over the years with playing soccer because we were on a road trip. I literally had to fly home early, caught the end of my cousin's wedding. There was a lot of stuff and highlights and things that I would have loved to be there. However, I was on the road for soccer, and so I kind of got to a point where I wanted to really put my family in those events first. That was really a priority for myself, and then also with just wanting to start my entrepreneurial life as well, too and realizing that's going to take time.
Phebe Trotman: And we had created a lot of success with the team, winning a national championship, getting MVP of the league. There were a lot of goals that I wanted to achieve, and those had happened as well, too. And so there are a lot of factors that I kind of just evaluated as well, too, in terms of, like, is this now a good time? And again, not wanting to quit because of something else and just going, you know what? This has been an amazing run.
Phebe Trotman: I've learned so much over my career with the whitecaps in that sense, and my season, I played down in Colorado, and so there were so many great experiences that I just felt, you know what? I'm excited for the next chapter, if you will, in terms of moving forward into my world as an entrepreneur and having that time to be able to be with my family and attend. Events and really be present in that way. So it was a combination of all of that and it was in my head, I wouldn't say for a long time, it was probably like the preseason leading into the season where I was kind of like, you know what? And I just realized I wasn't going to stop playing.
Phebe Trotman: That was a big thing. I still play to this day. I knew I was just going to play in a different way. I was going to join a different team and still have that love of the game, and I still love it and that competitiveness and being able to be on the field, I just knew it was going to be in a different way, if you will.
Mark Graban: Yeah, yeah. Is that so? If you're playing amateur, I don't know, a recreational soccer, do people get intimidated and say, oh, no, here comes the pro?
Phebe Trotman: You know what? I don't think so. I don't know what goes on there in their mind. But, yeah, it was just fun to be able to transition and play on a team with some other teammates who I hadn't played with in many years. And so it was just something where I was like, I still love it.
Phebe Trotman: It was still competitive. I was playing. It just wasn't again, on that level where you're training four to five times a week in games. It was just we practiced once a week in a game, on a weekend. And so it was still competitive.
Phebe Trotman: We still had national championships. I was able to win a couple of championships as well after that. So it was a lot of fun and a lot of players, too, who retired. So it wasn't just like one player comes out and then it was a lot of players who had retired in this league from playing pro. So a lot of good battles on the field in that way as well.
Mark Graban: I guess you find the right level of competition. I was making a mistake in my head, somehow, picturing Phebe and your teammates destroying some team, 20 to nothing.
Phebe Trotman: No, we don't do that. No, there's some good competition. There's some great competition in the league.
Mark Graban: My mistake. Bad assumption.
Phebe Trotman: No, that's okay. Well, it's fair enough, right? It could be that situation where someone comes down and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, dear, this is a different league. But no, I still wanted to play competitive because I was still quite young at the time and wanted to continue.
Mark Graban: A show I really enjoyed regardless of the soccer elements. Ted Lasso, is that a series that.
Phebe Trotman: Oh, my gosh, I love Ted Lasso. I was a late adopter to watching Ted Lasso because they didn't have Apple TV. And I kept hearing everyone's like, have you watched it? Have you watched have you watched it? And then finally I started and just absolutely love that show.
Phebe Trotman: So binged it, finished it. I'm hoping season four will come, but so too. Yeah. Fabulous show. So you're a big fan.
Mark Graban: I love the show. Sad that it ended. There's one Internet rumor of maybe people are just grasping at straws and hoping that there'll be something that one possible spin off would be kind of a continuation of the series. But focused on a women's team like that. Rebecca could start a AFC Richmond women's team and I don't know if Roy Kent would be as coach.
Mark Graban: We can imagine and think about all sorts of possibilities. I don't know, how would a series focused on a still this is my ignorance still considered Premier League or top tier women's soccer?
Phebe Trotman: Yeah, they could absolutely do a spinoff season for that. And I think that would be phenomenal. I mean, Ted Lasso one of the things I loved about it is you had so many people just grabbed onto that show and fell in love with the show for so many different reasons and there's so many lessons on leadership throughout that show. And so I absolutely loved it. I coached soccer as well.
Phebe Trotman: Little kids, though, the little ones. Yet seeing just all the lessons and how the team came together and just his vision for what he was creating and having the team over time buy in and the transformation of some of those characters, I don't know, spoilers for anyone, but it is such a phenomenal show for so many reasons. And then it's hilarious too. Like, you're laughing while you're learning. And I think it's entertaining.
Phebe Trotman: And I think the writers and the character actors have done such an incredible job and so many things that happen in the show. From as an athlete, I could relate to where you're just like, cracking up for other reasons because you see your teammates in there or you see yourself in some of those lessons. And so I do hope that something comes out of it and there is a continuation because I think what they did in terms of bringing people together and just allowing people to learn in such an entertaining way was absolutely brilliant.
Mark Graban: Yeah. Well, our guest today, again, Phebe Trotman, never quit on a badday.com. You're making me think now, Roy Kent's niece in the show, little girl, was Phoebe. Some of the hilarity.
Phebe Trotman: There's a lot in there. And that's why I was laughing. I'm like, Why didn't someone tell me his niece was named Phoebe? I would have watched this a long time ago. Just kidding.
Phebe Trotman: But, yeah, I absolutely love that show. So I highly recommend anyone watching listening. I don't watch a lot of TV. However, that is one show that every week it was like it came out 12:00 on a Wednesday, 12:00 a.m. And sometimes we would stay up just to watch it.
Phebe Trotman: We're like, okay, let's get this show in. Because it really was that entertaining and learning.
Mark Graban: Yes, it certainly was. I want to ask a couple of questions before we wrap up going back to your bio and you describe yourself as heart centered and being Canadian, it's spelled and I'll leave it in the show notes this way. T-R-E-D heart centered. So I'm not wanting to debate the spelling, but what does that phrase mean to you as a leader and as somebody who helps others?
Phebe Trotman: Absolutely. Well, heart centered, I mean, is really just about leading and connecting from the heart because everyone has reasons for why they do what they do. And so especially like being in a coach role, network marketing role, in terms of the business, it's connecting with people based on what their needs are and really finding out, especially in network marketing, it's like everyone joins for different reasons. Some people come in, it's really just about the product and they just want to be around a great community. Some people come in because they're looking to make it a little bit extra money, take their family on vacation, or pay down debt or buy a new car.
Phebe Trotman: And some people come in because they have a big vision for the way they want to create and so getting to know why someone wants to do something and helping them from what they need out of it. And it's the same way with soccer and coaching. As I mentioned, I coach little ones, so three year olds to seven year olds. And so it's just helping them to have a great experience, whatever that looks like for that person. And it's the same philosophy.
Phebe Trotman: And really when we connect with another person from the heart, whether it's a colleague at work, whether it's a boss, whether it's a business, whether it's a client, really, that connection is so strong because at the end of the day, everybody has a story, everybody has things that they're going through we don't necessarily know yet. When you come from a place of love and caring and compassion and kindness, it just is a different connection. And so that's something that's really important to me, that regardless of whatever my interaction is with someone, it's going to be heart centered and they're going to feel that I care about them as a human being. And hopefully our interaction is something positive that just shifts them a little bit, where they're a little bit happier, a little bit more joyous and whatever and how they move forward. Because again, I just believe in that ripple effect.
Phebe Trotman: And if we can have positive interactions with people, even when it's a tough one, it just shifts their day as well as our own and then we touch more people in that way.
Mark Graban: Yeah. And it seems like there would be applications to help others be more resilient or recover from mistakes. Whether that's a little kid scoring an own goal or an adult making a mistake in the workplace, being able to focus on how somebody feels about that. People feel bad when they make a mistake. And that's where I think punishment ends up being unhelpful or counterproductive.
Mark Graban: You've got to try to find a way to help someone recover from that mistake instead of kind of stepping on them, kicking them while they're down.
Phebe Trotman: Absolutely. And most people are harder on themselves than anyone is going to be to them. So it's like if someone does something that maybe in your mind they shouldn't have done, in their mind they shouldn't have done, they already know it. So it's like, again, how can we help someone learn from that? There's lots of own goals that happen in soccer, and we still celebrate because they're little.
Phebe Trotman: We just say, hey, next time let's go this way. Why don't we try and see if we can score on this goal next time versus that one? And you're teaching them as they go. Yeah. It's not going to serve anyone if we bash someone for something they've done because again, they already know.
Phebe Trotman: They already know that they're hard enough on themselves, and a lot of times they're going to hold on to that. And so if you add that extra emotion and beat them up for it, now they're hitting with both sides. If you can give them something to learn, help them learn out of that or another perspective, now they're still going to wrestle with the mistake because they know that they did it. However, now they have something else to think about a little bit too, where it's like, okay, that's a different way to look at it. And we're all going to make mistakes.
Phebe Trotman: We're human beings, right? We're all going to have failures. We're all going to have times where we're down it's. Again, I go back to the story. How do you bounce back from that?
Phebe Trotman: How do you be resilient? How do you move forward? What do you learn out of that to help you move forward in your life and just to look back on it and just imagine if we can all look back on things and go, well, that was my favorite mistake because there are going to be multiple mistakes. When you said, what favorite mistake? It's like, well, which one?
Phebe Trotman: Here's one I'll share. But we all have multiple things. And imagine if we can look back and think of, well, that was my favorite thing. No, that one was because I learned that. Well, actually this one was my favorite because I learned that and this one.
Phebe Trotman: And so the more we can get into that type of mentality, I think we're all going to go be light years ahead of where we could be when we start embracing it as part of stepping stones to go forward.
Mark Graban: Yeah, I'm glad we were able to do the pre call. That's part of my standard process now because I've learned you've got to give someone time to think through and process and decide of all the mistakes, okay, which is the favorite or a favorite because yeah, catching somebody off guard with that question, that doesn't go well. It's not fair to somebody if they haven't had a chance to think about it. So, yeah, difficult, let's say if you're at a party or networking dinner, what's your favorite mistake? I think it's tough to answer that without having some reflection.
Mark Graban: So thank you, Phebe, for that would.
Phebe Trotman: Be a fun party, though, Mark. You could do that where everyone comes in, the invitation says, my favorite mistake party, and everyone has time to prepare and comes and just shares. I think that would be might do that. That would be hilarious. I'll let you know.
Phebe Trotman: I'll let you know.
Mark Graban: All right, please do let me know how that goes. So, again, we've been joined today by Phebe Trotman. Her book, first in a series, is never Quit on a Bad Day. The link to the website will be in the show notes or as she mentioned, the domain name was available never Quit Onabadday.com. You can get a free chapter from the book and more if you go and visit the website, maybe.
Mark Graban: Final question for you, Phebe. Were there any lessons from the writing and the publishing of the book that you would want to share? Were there any struggles worth sharing with others?
Phebe Trotman: Great question. I would say yes, there were definitely struggles. There were challenges in terms of especially because it's a compilation of stories, so there's short stories in the book, so I'm very grateful. There weren't a lot. However, there were those bumps.
Phebe Trotman: And I think the lesson for anyone is when you're doing something new and my own stuff where I was nervous, I'm still when people are like, oh, you're an author. I'm like? Am I? I guess because it's something new. Right.
Phebe Trotman: And there's always going to be something. When you're doing something outside of your comfort zone or you want to create something you've never had before, you're going to have to step outside of your comfort zone. And with that there will be nerves and that's okay. It just means you're moving towards something you've never done before. And so I had to have a lot of chats with myself where I was like, am I really doing this?
Phebe Trotman: There's lots of great books out there. And I had the little bit of impostor syndrome and thinking of all the books that I've been touched and thinking like, oh, my gosh, but that was written by this person and who am I to write a book? And I had to get over myself with a lot of positive self chat and, okay, it's for the people that I can touch that someone else may not be able to. In this book, it's to highlight the stories of people who have inspired me. And again, I share how I had some.
Phebe Trotman: And so throughout the process, there were little bumps and things that happened. And then right before the launch, a big doozy of something, and I just was like, wait, what? I was not expecting it at that point in time. And I think that would be the lesson to share, is that even when you think things might be going smooth, there could be something that will happen. And again, you go back to how do you respond to it, who do you surround yourself with?
Phebe Trotman: Who do you go to when you have those struggles? And it's okay to go to people. You're not alone in it. So really reaching out to people. And I'm so grateful for the community that I have behind me that helped me through those bumps along the way and were kind of reminded me, again, the theme of the book, and part of it is one of the things is, like, sharing those stories.
Phebe Trotman: At some point, sure, I'll share some of the more details of what happened, but it's really just a reminder that even when you think you might be there, there could be another bump and how do you prepare for it? And so it's important. Personal development is huge for me. And so I just think it's important for others to prepare yourself before things are tough, so that when things are tough, you can rely back on the lessons that you've learned and things that you've pulled through along your journey, because that was definitely handy along the way is just the reminder of, like, okay, this is why I'm doing it. And yes, there's going to be challenges, there's going to be bumps, and you just keep going through.
Phebe Trotman: And I'm grateful now to be able to look back and say, no, it wasn't just like a smooth red carpet rollout. There were challenges, but we were able to pull it together. And here we are now with a book that's been helping a lot of people.
Mark Graban: Yeah, well, congratulations. Tried to roll the red carpet out for you here today. Thank you for sharing your red card story.
Phebe Trotman: My red card story. And just for everyone in Mark, you too. I've only gotten one red card. That never happened again. One and done.
Phebe Trotman: I'm good. I don't need to have any more.
Mark Graban: But thank you for sharing the lessons learned, not just for future soccer matches, but what you've carried forward and what you share with others. So, again, our guest today has been Phebe Trotman. The book is never quit on a bad day. This has been a lot of fun. Thank you.
Mark Graban: Thank you so much for doing the episode.
Phebe Trotman: Thank you, Mark. And I just want to say again, congratulations on all your success. I love how you're just helping people realize that mistakes are part of the journey and it's what we can learn from them and how we push forward. So I absolutely love the show, love everything you're doing, and congratulations and keep going. And thank you for having me on.
Phebe Trotman: I really appreciate it.
Mark Graban: It.