Lean Manufacturing Expert Bob Rush is “A Big Fan of Mistakes”
My guest for Episode #90 of the My Favorite Mistake podcast is my friend Bob Rush, a Lean manufacturing expert, a management consultant (Bob Rush Consulting), and a contributor to the anthology book Practicing Lean that I published a few years ago.
His bio from his chapter read: “Bob has over 35 years of operations experience and has had over 25 years of Lean practice. His experience is in companies ranging from startups to Fortune 100 companies, and title levels that ranged from shipping clerk to VP of operations. Some of the companies he has worked with, and for, include Hewlett Packard, JDS Uniphase, and Idex Corporation. His journey includes ten years of consulting experience, where he had only himself to blame if things didn’t work out.” Bob was also “associate Lean manager” at Tesla Motors from 2015 to 2018 before returning to consulting.
In today's episode, Bob shares his “favorite mistake” story about not realizing, at first, that “Lean” is a system, not a toolbox. Why does he say that “the biggest project I’ll ever work on is myself”?
Other topics and questions:
- What’s your elevator speech about Lean? How do you explain it to a CEO?
- Creating a culture where it’s OK to talk about mistakes?
- What was the teaching style of your mentors? They knew you’d figure it out? Not simple telling…
- “Big fan of making mistakes” – Why did he once give a reward for the biggest mistake?
- Find Bob on
Scroll down to find:
- How to subscribe
- Full transcript
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Automated Transcript (Likely Contains Mistakes)
Mark Graban (0s):
Episode 90, Bob Rush, manufacturing consultant.
Bob Rush (5s):
The biggest lean project you will ever work on is yourself. How do I make myself better? How do I make myself more customer centric?
Mark Graban (19s):
I'm Mark Graban. This is My Favorite Mistake. In this podcast, you'll hear business leaders and other really interesting people talking about their favorite mistakes because we all make mistakes. But what matters is learning from our mistakes instead of repeating them over and over again. So this is the place for honest reflection and conversation, personal growth and professional success. Visit our website at myfavoritemistakepodcast.com. For links, show notes and more information. Go to markgraban.com/mistake90. As always, thanks for listening. And we're joined today by a friend of mine.
Mark Graban (60s):
I'm really happy that Bob Rush is here. He is currently a management consulting with this firm, Bob Rush Consulting. He has a long history. I'm hoping you don't mind me saying long history, Bob it's. Okay. I think it's stating a fact. I respect Bob's experience in the manufacturing world. We've got similar professional backgrounds and experiences, and Bob was also one of the contributors like Jamie Parker, who was in episode eight of the podcast. Bob was a contributor to our book, Practicing Lean. So with, with that, Bob, thank you so much for being here. How are you?
Bob Rush (1m 37s):
Mark Graban (1m 38s):
Bob Rush (1m 39s):
Glad to be here. Good to be anywhere nowadays.
Mark Graban (1m 44s):
And I'm glad that we're doing a podcast. I've asked Bob a number of times over the years, so I'm glad you finally said yes. I hope this ends up. I don't think it will be a mistake.
Bob Rush (1m 52s):
I don't think so. It may be on your part, but not mine. I'm not expecting that at all. So, so
Mark Graban (2m 0s):
We're going to be able to delve into all kinds of different topics around, you know, workplace culture and mistakes and, and learning. But as we always do here, Bob I'll, I'll tee you up to tell your story. What is your favorite mistake?
Bob Rush (2m 15s):
Okay, well, mine, I'm going to tell a little bit of story and you've heard part of it. I discovered lean by accident. I had a client that sent me to Boeing to learn about lean from Shingujitsu. And I did a Kaizen event and started working with it, picked up along the way. I picked up a sensei who taught me the ins and outs of it. And he taught me more than I knew, and it took me a while to realize it. So, so my favorite mistake is I didn't realize that lean is actually a system. It's not a toolbox, although there is a toolbox to it.
Bob Rush (2m 59s):
It's a, it's a management system. Right? And I didn't realize that. I mean, the day I discovered it, I had an epiphany and my sensei, although he claimed not to speak English every now and then would slip up and speak in English and pretty good English. But through the interpreter explained very graciously that he knew I would figure it out like that. And then later the interpreter for me, that side that said, that said, that, say that they actually said, I thought he'd get it a lot sooner than he did. So I started, I mean, once you start thinking like that, it really opens up everything.
Bob Rush (3m 39s):
And I mean, you realize that this is a totally different world than what you're used to. And I tell everybody that I served in Vietnam. And when I discovered Buddhism in Vietnam, when it came home, I was fortunate enough to link up with a Zen master who was also an army veteran. We met through the VA. So, and he got me started on then. So I had this background and lean is, it's an exercise in Zen existence. It's about the here and now. And it's about the old saying, good enough, rarely is, is wrong.
Bob Rush (4m 23s):
Good enough is good today. It won't be good enough tomorrow maybe, but it's good enough today. As long as I fix something, then it's good enough and I'll, I'll keep working on it. So once I realized that it just took over and expanded. So, and I think I told you, I'm mentoring a guy here in town, in Murfreesboro. And he, I challenged people that want me to mentor them for one, it's a two way street. So I want to make sure that they understand that. So, and he'd ask questions and I'd always give him an assignment to go away. Tell me about this. Tell me about that. And one of my favorite challenges for people is tell me about the biggest project you've ever worked on.
Bob Rush (5m 7s):
What is the biggest project you've ever worked on? And everybody except him brought me data from their project. Oh, I did a Kaizen, on this. I did a SMED event and did this. He came back and he says, this is probably the wrong answer. But the biggest project I'll ever work on is myself. And he is absolutely correct. The biggest lean project you will ever work on is yourself. How do I make myself better? How do I make myself more customer centric? So he is learning about lean as a system. So originally it started out with specific questions about tools and, you know, you can build a knowledge of tools and probably not really get the essence of lean.
Bob Rush (5m 56s):
So you need to understand it if that system, that it's a, and it's a management system, this is not, you know, a little operational system somewhere. This is a management system everybody's involved in it. Everybody's linked, you know, upwards and downwards, both. So, and, and the truly successful organizations that's understood. You know, I always use Danaher, they train their people so well. And their manager, you know, from frontline supervisors to CEOs are in a, met with lean. They really are. They understand that they understand the power of it. They understand how to use it.
Bob Rush (6m 36s):
So that was my biggest mistake was doing that. And that's my sensei said, I don't know why it took me so long to figure that out.
Mark Graban (6m 46s):
That's, that's a good reflection. And I think there's a lot that we can unpack there. One follow up question, Bob, you know, a lot of our audience might not be familiar with quote, unquote lean manufacturing or, or this lean methodology. So you, you mentioned SMED as a, as a tool in the details of this, but single minute exchange of dies, that's a fairly technical methodology that could be taught even outside of the context of what you're describing as the system or the culture that comes from Toyota. What's your elevator speech version. If someone comes up to you and said, well, Bob, what, what is this lean system?
Mark Graban (7m 27s):
What do you mean by?
Bob Rush (7m 29s):
Okay, the Lean system is a way of communicating within an organization to improve the focus toward customer value. And there are tools that will help you with customer value. SMED single minute exchange of die. If you can reduce your setup time, for example, you can increase, increase your throughput. And of course, you know, side benefit of that is you'll reduce your cost machine down for any reasons, cost money. So you can go through it. What it is is from the top down, everybody's understanding that we're, we're focused on the customer, truly focused on the customer and that we're going to do what we need to do.
Bob Rush (8m 19s):
So high level I've always asked, how do you explain lean to CEOs? CEOs need to know that they're a leader in it. They don't have to do every tool to be effective at it, but they have to understand it. So the biggest change in a lean system is that listening becomes the greatest asset for a leader. It goes away from telling people to listening to people and then enabling them to do things. You've heard me might speech respect for people. So that's what you got to get to that point where, you know, the CEO, we've all seen videos from Japanese companies where the CEO is polishing the floor because he adds value by polishing the floor.
Bob Rush (9m 9s):
So his employees can do their job. So it's a, it's a system that enables decision-making at the lowest possible level. So CEO should be strategic in five years. I want to be here. I want to, you know, introduce a new product into this market. I want to do things like that. The organization then should be capable of doing those things. And I I've had
Mark Graban (9m 35s):
The good fortune to see firsthand on two different trips to Japan. I'm the CEO of an electronics manufacturer. Literally it's like 7:30 in the morning being in work attire, uniforms, just like as employees and being the first one down on his hands and knees with a rag and a bucket washing the floor. And, and I think there's a lot about, you know, that that's that organizational culture of humility and leading by example and, and servant leadership and, and even discipline about, I mean, you know, he's showing us like, well, you know, here's exactly how you ring out the rag.
Bob Rush (10m 16s):
Yeah. I mean, there's the
Mark Graban (10m 18s):
Half-way era. I flew halfway around the world for this, but it's fascinating. And yeah,
Bob Rush (10m 24s):
It's a cultural thing, but it, it works. So, and you know, anybody that's been in lean for any time has heard the word works in. Japan will never work here, but that's not true. It's not true. I've seen it work here and multiple places. So you get those leaders that, that really truly get it, you know, and CEOs bless their little souls tend to be egotistical, right. They rose to the top. So, and there's a reason why I'm the big guide. So the smart ones realize that they were lucky along the way that they had a tremendous amount of help along the way.
Bob Rush (11m 10s):
The guy that encouraged me most, the boss that I had that encouraged me, most of my lean journey told me one time, the easiest way to get a promotion is to be pushed up by your people, make them so good. The company recognizes and they will find something for you. And he was absolutely right. He and I were both brought in to turnaround a small division of a huge conglomerate. And both of us ended up moving up rather rapidly to take over and large, larger groups. So, I mean, I started out with a manufacturing group of a hundred and by the time I had done it with that almost 3000, we had acquired companies that just got incorporated into us.
Bob Rush (11m 56s):
You know, you know, the benefits of lean, right? You can, can produce more with the same resources, right. And without stressing people out well, you know, they should go home feeling good about what they did. You know, we've talked a lot about cultures, culture that sends people home happy and healthy. It's a good culture. They should not go home worrying about their jobs or worrying about a mistake. You know, they should go home happy that they accomplished something that even if they made a mistake, that there's a culture that will support them on it, as long as they learn from it, you know, I'm a big fan of making mistakes.
Bob Rush (12m 41s):
And a couple of my stops in my career, I actually had a reward for the biggest mistake who made the biggest mistake and would reward them, you know, gift certificates or something like that. So, and people soon realized that if you could laugh about a mistake, you could tell people about mistakes. You've known me long enough to know. I love to laugh and people will, you know, if they're comfortable enough to laugh with you, they're comfortable enough to tell you the bad things. So it, sometimes it takes a while, but you gotta do it. That's part of the culture. Yeah.
Mark Graban (13m 20s):
So I've jotted a note. We'll, we'll come back to that idea of, you know, rewarding mistakes. I want to ask a little bit more, you know, thinking back to the teaching style of the people from Shingujitsu, who was it? Is it fair to say they were exclusively ex Toyota or just predominantly,
Bob Rush (13m 40s):
I first hooked up with them. They were ex Toyota. It was a requirement. And when I started with them, this was my first exposure to them with 1991. So the, they were all guys that have worked with Ohno. Yeah. So, I mean, they were exposed to Taiichi. So he, you know, he was a driver. These guys were drivers. Although the group, you know, they splintered the group that I followed were the guys that thought that abusing people was not the way to go. If you truly believed in respect for people, why would you abuse him? Why would you make fun of them if they did something wrong or something like that.
Bob Rush (14m 20s):
And there's still people within Shingujitsu that have been trained by Shingo too, that believe in that the, the smart ones don't believe in it. And I mean, it made perfect sense to me, if you really want people to perform, they, they gotta be comfortable. It's, it's a big thing. You know, it's funny to me as managers, we we're taught or encouraged to take emotion out of the workplace, you know, workplace one of the emotional, most emotional places you'll ever be shouldn't we manage it shouldn't we help guide it towards where we want the emotions to be.
Bob Rush (15m 0s):
Mark Graban (15m 1s):
People are emotional. So you imagine telling people don't be human. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stop,
Bob Rush (15m 7s):
Stop doing what you think you should do. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. They, I, yeah, they were Toyota guys. So they had a certain way of doing things. You know, we hooked up at when I was with Tesla and the people there had been trained by Toyota at some of them. And I could tell the difference between the guys that had been trained by what I call first-generation Toyota. And the second generation Toyota was it, there was a little different results were pretty much the same tools were kind of used the same. It was the approach to it.
Mark Graban (15m 47s):
So I've interviewed a former Toyota leader from Australia. And he talked about that split that there was that divergence within Toyota. And I figured if he used the word humanistic, I think he did there, there was that, that humanistic camp kind of won out and that there was a shift internally within the Toyota corporate culture, you know, focusing on developing people and respecting people. And you could still be a driver. It's not about being nice, right?
Bob Rush (16m 29s):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I want them to respect me if they like me, in addition to respect to me, that's okay. But they have to respect me. And I think the easiest way to get respect is to show people, number one, that you give respect, but that you actually have their interests at heart. You know, it's not my career. It's your career. I'm worried about. So, and that was, you know, pro to this ephiphany of the system thing is everybody is a coach. So it's funny. I know you and I have talked about this. So I called my sensei sensei and towards the end of our time together, he'd let me know that he never liked being called sensei.
Bob Rush (17m 18s):
He liked, he, he just, and he, he told me many times that there's no experts in lean. There's just people that have been at it longer. And those people owe it to the other people to pass that knowledge on. So, and then he also admitted that sensei is a term of respect and he understood that, but he, he much preferred to be called friend and, and you know, this as a fact for me, I take that very serious. So I'd rather be called friend.
Mark Graban (17m 51s):
Yeah. Interesting. And, and my understanding of the term and how it's used, like you could choose to call that person sensei. Yeah. I could choose to call you sensei. You are not a sensei as if it's a job title.
Bob Rush (18m 6s):
Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's more a teacher. So you know the relationship and it's a relationship. This is not, you know, we're going to go into a conference room and it's going to draw diagrams on a whiteboard, although they use whiteboard, you know, to show people, but really it's a relationship of two people that are exploring things together. And it doesn't necessarily have to be related to the production floor. It could be in career development or your own personal development. Yeah. My sensei was big on acceptance.
Bob Rush (18m 46s):
We have to learn to accept things and we have to understand what is, we know what could be, and we know what was, but what we have to accept is what is whatever it is, whether it's a, you know, a problem on the assembly line or it's a problem in your personal thinking. It is, it just is. And just fix that, don't worry about what was, or what will be. So he focused us on that. So. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.
Mark Graban (19m 18s):
So I wanted to ask one, you know, the question about their teaching style of, of saying, you know, I knew, or I thought that
Bob Rush (19m 26s):
You would figure it out.
Mark Graban (19m 29s):
If you can kind of elaborate. Like a lot of times training is just so rote or determined. Like I, you sat in a room, I spewed information at you. And now I give you a certificate that says you were training. Yes.
Bob Rush (19m 47s):
But do you really know it? Does it, is it part of you? Right. And it's funny because here's the style of teaching with the senseis. They, there is a lot of teaching that is done non-verbally they expect you to notice things. One of the things I figured out is to follow my sensei's eyes. So, and he, you know, he'd look all over, but when he stopped to look at something, I knew there was a problem. And he never told me about it. Never said, oh, look, there's a problem. I'll look there's this.
Bob Rush (20m 27s):
He just would do it. Right. So you have to do it. There was a, the guy I'm mentoring here in town is connected any, and it gets questioned question questions a lot. And he's been dragging me into it. And the State of Arizona is trying to implement lean and they had some questions for them. So I was on a conference call with them and we are talking about how to do something without even thinking about it. We were on a zoom call without even thinking about it. I wanted to make a point to him. And I just leaned into the camera. And it was funny. The leader of their group picked up on it right away and said, oh, look, this is important.
Bob Rush (21m 7s):
He leaned into the camera and I'm thinking, oh boy, that's my sensei. Cause he would lean in to you when it was really important, he would lean in to you. And he wasn't trying to intimidate you. It was his way of making a point, you know? So they want you to be observant. They want you to do it. They want to know that you're going to open up to them. Cause there'll be open with you. So he could give me brutally honest feedback. And I knew that it was exactly that it was brutally honest. It wasn't personal. He wasn't trying to rip me. He was actually the opposite way of trying to help me to try to make me understand something.
Bob Rush (21m 52s):
So yeah. And he taught me just all kinds of little things. Like I told somebody recently I did a supplier audit with them. So they had a client that wanted an audit system that was lean. So he, he did a supplier audit with their people and he invited me along. Most of my career was spent in supply chain. So he figured, oh, I hope this guy knows something about it. So we went and it was funny because they had the typical conference room, donuts, coffee, here's our, you know, 82 slide deck about our company. And he just said, no, no, no, let's go to the floor. Cause that's where the product's made.
Bob Rush (22m 34s):
Let's go to the floor. And the very first thing he did and that's where it's a machining area that we went to, he get down on his hands and knees and lift under machine. So, and those of us on the tour thought, let's see praying, what's he doing? So, and then I thought I'm going to do it too. So I got down and look, and under the machines, it was filthy. It was filthy oil buildup, cuttings, all kinds of stuff under there. And he just said, you know, told the VP of ops. You're not ready for us. So we'll be back in 30 days, be ready for it.
Bob Rush (23m 14s):
He didn't tell him how to be ready. He didn't give him a checklist. He just told him to be ready. Now he assumed one or two things that they would be smart enough to figure it out. If he got down on me, they would be smart enough to get down on their Anthony's and go, oh wow. Yeah, I see what he's talking about. Or they wouldn't be, in which case they would be disqualified as a supplier on made it so, and they were smart enough. They were smart enough. The shop looked a lot better when we came in. So, and then he introduced them to 5s. Well, it's
Mark Graban (23m 48s):
Interesting of, of guiding somebody. I mean, a couple minutes ago you said something about, you know, make them learn. Well, nobody can really make you learn, but they can create conditions where you would figure it out. And, and you know, you, you described, you had an epiphany, like, do you remember what led to your epiphany about this being a system and not a toolbox?
Bob Rush (24m 10s):
Yes. So one of the things that I've talked about my whole career in, in ween in particular is that a lot of people get hung up on tools. Right? And at Tesla, I came up with the term of a punch card lean, right? Somebody would print out the 25 top lean tools and then they would come to me going, well, I've already done Kaizen, so can you teach me SMED? Check? Oh, can you teach me, you know, and they'd go down the list. So, and early in my career, I realized not early, it took longer than I expected, but I realized that I was focused on the tools rather than the system of it.
Bob Rush (24m 57s):
And, you know, I was teaching tools, but I wasn't teaching the system to use those tools. Right. So when, when it was, you know, me and factory, so I was like three o'clock in the morning and some factory. And it just came to me that I'm teaching these guys tools, but their managers aren't understanding why they use this tool or you know, what they should do. And then, I mean, literally I went back to the hotel and laid down for a bit and just as I drifted off, it just hit me that, oh my, oh my, I should involve everybody. The CEO should know about this, that thing, the manager should know about this.
Bob Rush (25m 40s):
Right? So, and I don't care if the CEO knows the tools, as long as he knows who, who does what and he supports them. So although the smart ones do learn the tools. But so I care about that. They know that this is a system that they're going to implement. This thing, that everybody's going to be involved in it, you know, my love of Japan. So I was with Hewlett Packard early in my career in supply chain. And we wanted to learn about the Japanese style of manufacturing. In the early eighties, we were doing world-class manufacturing and we wanted to learn about this. So we're going to go take tours. And we took a tour of a relatively small steel meal, like a 600 person company.
Bob Rush (26m 28s):
And it was incredible. The level of excitement and involvement of employees and the control charts were, I mean, they were literally up to the minute type stuff. They were it's the fact was spotless. It was incredible. So we, we went the room, there was six of us from HP and the leader of our group just wanted to know how they got it. And in particular, how did he get quality circles going? You know, how did you get them going? Because we struggled. We couldn't get them going. So, and, and, and I'll never forget. The interpreter asked the question and a CEO gave his answer and the, the interpreter turned to us and said something along the lines of revered leader says that called the circles are not mandatory.
Bob Rush (27m 21s):
They're simply a condition of employment. And we died laughing. And just realize, we could say, you have to do this, but if, if you make it a condition of employment, if your culture holds people accountable to partake in the call, these circles, then it's, it's a much better thing. And then when I did the system thing, I mean, that just makes sense, right? It's not mandatory. You don't have to do it, but if you want to work here, you will do it. And there's a big difference there. Right? My favorite boss of all time, I told you about, helped me on like lean journey. And it used to have all these little things that just amused us to know him.
Bob Rush (28m 4s):
And one of his things was you or your replacement will do this. Oh. And he was joking because yeah, I mean, if you got, got terminated by Jeff, you deserve it. You truly deserve it. And if you didn't know it, everybody around, you knew it. So one of the things I loved about him, he was the best leader I ever worked with. He really was. And he, he taught me to spend more time with my eight performers than my D performers. And he says, because you'll get better rewards by raising the level of your eight performers up than you ever will.
Bob Rush (28m 49s):
Would you rather have an A-plus performer or a C minus performer? And I said, oh man, I've been doing this wrong. Oh my gosh, though. And he was the one that pushed me on my lean journey. He insisted on it. So the first company I got hired at, I had just, I mean, I literally had been doing it maybe two years when I got hired as director of ops there. And he asked me if I knew anything about it. So, and of course, you know, after two years you think you're pretty good at it. So I let him know and he insisted on it, then we're going to be lean. We're not going to do, you know, we're not going to do it half ass. That's what he said. We're going to do it all the way.
Bob Rush (29m 30s):
So does that mean, and one of the rituals, he and I have, we both work late and he would come down to my office every night. We would discuss the day. Here's what happened. Marketing fed this, you know, customers have this, we have this return rate, whatever it was. But the final thing was we would take a gemba walk and we had easels with pads out there where the people could write down their problems. And he, and I would write down problems that we could help with. And then at the end of the night, we go through our list, I'm going to take this one. You're going to take that one. They're going to have to fix that one themselves. Or there were some that we decided would be learning lessons for them.
Bob Rush (30m 12s):
You know, if we let them muddle through it, it'll be okay, but they'll figure it out. So, and that set our plan for the next day. So every place I've been sent, I've done gamble walked at the end of the day, whatever that be. You know, if it's six o'clock at night or four o'clock in the morning, I do a gemba walk and just, here's what I want to do tomorrow. And gemba…
Mark Graban (30m 35s):
Walk for those who don't know is basically just, you know, going out the shop floor, the workplace.
Bob Rush (30m 41s):
So I'm using lingo and I shouldn't, I apologize. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Mark Graban (30m 48s):
There's nothing to apologize for in terms of the reflections and the stories that you've had to share with this Bob, but I do have to close the loop on giving rewards for the biggest mistake, because I think some listeners would say, well, wait a minute, Bob, that's crazy. If you give people rewards from mistakes, you're only going to end up with more mistakes.
Bob Rush (31m 9s):
And my experience has been, if you've, if you've started changing a culture towards the respect for people, the people will start getting it. I'm not looking for you to make mistakes. What I'm looking for is you to tell me that you made a mistake and, and the people that worked with me, cause I hate the term worked for me. The people that work with me, the smart ones figured out, not only did I want to know about the problem, I wanted to know what you're proposing as a solution. And if you could come up with the solution, then we're going to work on it together and I'll help you. But I'm not going to tell you what to do. You, you kept asking about teaching, right?
Bob Rush (31m 51s):
That's the teaching moment, make him go think lean is a thinking exercise, but not too much thinking because you can overthink it. But so yeah. Yeah. That's what you got to do. What
Mark Graban (32m 6s):
I've seen in different settings is encouraging the speaking up about mistakes. It's not progressing the rewards, not triggering more mistakes. It's, it's triggering more speaking up. The mistakes are happening. Whether we want to admit that reality or not, which seems to come back to your point about paraphrasing. It is what it is. This is the real reality right now. Let's accept it. Yeah. And, and move
Bob Rush (32m 32s):
On. Of course I want it better. That's my job to make things better. If I don't make them better than I failed as a leader. And I, I deserve determination. I'm going to get so just because you have a respect for people in a, in a culture that accepts mistakes doesn't mean you have to accept bad performance. You just have to understand the difference, you know, bad performers. They would be the ones that would try to make a mistake to get the reward. But if you really know your system, you have ways of, of knowing those people they've been identified. And so you can understand them.
Mark Graban (33m 12s):
Well, it's well said a lot of wisdom from our guests. Bob Rush, Bob, as we wrap up here, I know people can find you on LinkedIn. Are you? I, I, I first met Bob because he was writing great articles on LinkedIn
Bob Rush (33m 29s):
And that's called that's all I know about. Great.
Mark Graban (33m 35s):
But people can find you on LinkedIn and Bob Rush Consulting. Is the firm any other suggestions for how people, if they want to learn from you or work with you? Well, LinkedIn
Bob Rush (33m 47s):
Is the best way, but my email you can track me down is firstname.lastname@example.org. All right. And if you have questions, send it as part of my learning along the way, lean as a pay it forward thing. So I received and I have to give, so I'm, I'm happy to give I'll help in any way I can. Okay.
Mark Graban (34m 14s):
Well, Bob, thank you so much. It's, it's great to talk to you again. It's been a while. I'm glad we could record some of it and share it here on the podcast.
Bob Rush (34m 21s):
Thanks for having me. I enjoyed it. Well, good. Not a mistake then. I think we agree. Okay. I hope.
Mark Graban (34m 29s):
Thanks Bob. Okay. Thanks again. Thanks to Bob Rush for being such a great guest today, to learn more about him and for show notes and more information on the episode, you can go to www.markgraban.com/mistake90. As always, I want to thank you for listening. I hope this podcast inspires you to reflect on your own mistakes, how you can learn from them or turn them into a positive I've had listeners tell me they started being more open and honest about mistakes in their work. And they're trying to create a workplace culture where it's safe to speak up about problems because that leads to more improvement and better business results. If you have feedback or a story to share, you can email me email@example.com.
Mark Graban (35m 12s):
And again, our website is myfavoritemistakepodcast.com.